Subject: MAX Digest - 2 Feb 1998 to 3 Feb 1998 - Special issue
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:09:36 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 4 messages totalling 522 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. cd recorders, jaz drives
  2. MAX Digest - 1 Feb 1998 to 2 Feb 1998
  3. one more thing about defrag
  4. Aiff Player

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Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:03:14 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: cd recorders, jaz drives

>Anyone have SyJet war stories? Are these drives
>any better?

I don't have any experience with the SyJet, but I have had experience with
Syquest products in the past, particularly the 270.  A total piece of crap.
I used to work in a lab where we kept an inventory of 35 of these things.
We probably made about 60 returns in the space of 18 months.   I have a few
friends who have Jaz drives, and they sound like nightmares.  I can,
however, say only good things about the Zip drive.  In that same lab, we
returned 2 drives out of 35, which is pretty good, considering the amount
of use they got (more than the syquest 270's, that's for sure).   I think
the best investment is a good sized external drive and a CD-R.  More money
upfront, but better in the long run.  Besides, you'll always have $6 for a
CD-R, but you won't always have $120 for a Jaz disk!

>How does one go about converting any of the
>standard soundfile types (.wav, .aiff, .snd -- those three especially)
>into CD audio?

This is done in the process of writing an Audio CD by the CD-R software.
Apple CD-R software generally requires sound to be in .aiff or
SoundDesigner II format, PC CD-R in .wav format, and regardless of
platform, in 44.1k stereo (meaning mono tracks need to be split up into
2!).  The free software "SoundHack" can convert any of those sound file
formats into the one you need.
I use Toast Pro 3.0 CD by Asante with a Phillips CD-r, and it is quite
functional.  However, if you intend to be writing mostly audio CDs, I would
look for another software title.  Toast 3.0 (perhaps there is a newer
version?) doesn't write "disc-at-once," nor is it able to copy audio cd's
directly from a CD drive.  "Disc-at-once" is a feature that writes the CD
without turning off the laser between tracks, which allows you to have a
gap of less than 2 seconds between tracks (even 0 seconds!).  [I believe
disc-at-once has ramifications when creating a CD for mass-production as
well, but I'm not sure why].    Masterlist CD by Digidesign is apparently
capable of doing both of these things.  I'm not really sure on the price (I
found Toast used for $50.00, and I am happy!), but I think you can expect
to pay around $200.00 for CDR software for a Mac.  However, I am surprised
that the CD-R you have access to doesn't have software--they generally come
with software.
Feel free to write to me off-list if you have any other questions.

Peter.

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@loop.com
http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/
--home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--

>I will not answer
>Any more --
>Perhaps I will go
>Start a war!
>
>The public's easy
>To distract --
>When bombs are
>Falling on Iraq!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:45:15 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 1 Feb 1998 to 2 Feb 1998

>There are 12 messages totalling 358 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
>  1. 1x CDROM drives
>  2. MAX Digest - 31 Jan 1998 to 1 Feb 1998 (2)
>  3. route (2)
>  4. Macintosh 1X external cd rom drives...
>  5. Aiff Player
>  6. ctlout question
>  7. School question
>  8. JAZ Anomolies
>  9. so-called 'jaz' disk.
> 10. Jaz, CD
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:19:08 -0500
>From:    Tommy DOG 
>Subject: 1x CDROM drives
>
>>Date:    Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:45:16 -0500
>>From:    Adrienne Lee Harvey 
>>Subject: Macintosh 1X external cd rom drives...
>>
>>does anyone know where I might be able to find these?  I am working on a
>>project that would require about 4 of them.
>>
>>-Adrienne
>>harvey@tophat.stetson.edu
>>
>
>Try http://www.shrevesystems.com
>These folks are a great source for Mac parts...
>You can even fix up that old Apple II/e with their help.
>TD
>"Death To The Dumb, Curses Upon The Heads Of The Weird"
>                     Tommy DOG
>http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/3976/uni.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:40:00 -0500
>From:    Christopher Murtagh 
>Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 31 Jan 1998 to 1 Feb 1998
>
>>
>> Date:    Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:09:06 -0500
>> From:    "M. Abidh Waugh" 
>> Subject: so-called 'jaz' disk.
>>
>> I am hoping that some people on this list migh comment as to if they
>> experience the same type of anomolies that I do when using the so called
>> jaz drive with soundfile playback/record.
>
>
>
>> Any comments about 'jaz' vs. other drives?
>
>
> I had and still am having some pretty horrible expreience with my SyQuest
>SyJet drive. I have just returned it (for a new replacement) for the
>second time. The SyJet has been the most unreliable piece of equipment I
>have ever used, my 1541 diskdrive for my C64 was more reliable! We have
>had a number of SyJets in the music building here and all but 1 have been
>VERY unreliable. Everything from disk errors that crash the machines, to
>glitches in Audio files and missing or corrupted beyond repair files. I
>wouldn't recommend a SyJet to my worst enemy. I have tried using it on a
>wide variety of machines from my IIfx, 7200s, 8500s and our new G3s - all
>of them don't like the SyJet (or at least not any of mine). Anyone else
>have similar experiences? I feel like sending some nasty mail/pipe bomb to
>SyQuest if I get another lemon when I get the 3rd one back :).
>
> The funny thing is my EZdrive (135) has been the most fantastic drive I
>have ever had, I don't understand how SyQuest has put out such a piece of
>crap. Anyway, enough of my rant... Just a few piles of my 2 pennies
>worth.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Christopher Murtagh
>B.Mus Computer Applications
>McGill University
>Faculty of Music
>
>Obligatory Quote:
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and
>millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million
>machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note
>that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone
>do not denote a higher life form." -- New York Times, November 26, 1991
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:02:33 +0100
>From:    Jeffrey Burns 
>Subject: route
>
>>>Has anyone out there written a _route_ object that will accept 88 or mor=
>>e
>>>arguments??
>>
>>>Jeff Burns
>>
>>I could do it, but are you aware that you can string together
>>multiple route objects for however many choices you want? Make
>>one with up to 10 arguments, and use the 11th outlet to go into
>>the first inlet of another route.  This way, you can also mix
>>symbols, floats, and ints.
>>
>>Stephen Kay
>
>Thanks for your intetest. As evident from the patch I sent you a week ago,
>I have already tried stringing together 9 route objects. I believe,
>however, that this method unnecessarily slows things down. I am interested
>in sending lists of 6 ints to 88 destinations.
>
>Jeff Burns
>
>
>http://www.snafu.de/~jeff
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:56:31 +0000
>From:    Ben Nevile 
>Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 31 Jan 1998 to 1 Feb 1998
>
>> Anyone have SyJet war stories? Are these drives
>> any better?
>
>I have experience with both drives, and I think the SyJet is a LOT
>better.  You might want to ciheck out one of the new SyQuest drives.
>I think they're pretty hot.
>
>
>bbn
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:58 +0100
>From:    Peter Castine 
>Subject: Re: Macintosh 1X external cd rom drives...
>
>Adrienne Lee Harvey  asked:
>>does anyone know where I might be able to find these?  I am working on a
>>project that would require about 4 of them.
>
>If you're located near any large city, have you tried your local Second
>Hand advertising newspaper? I'm in a similar situation, and there is
>usually one old SCSI CD-ROM Drive (some single, some double speed) to be
>had in every issue (3x weekly in Berlin). People are usually asking about
>DEM 50 over here. The only trick is to get people to part with the things
>separately, they're usually trying to sell something like a
>IIci/monitor/CD-ROM bundle.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>PEter
>
>---------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ----------------
>Dr. Peter Castine                | The old believe everything;
>pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de        | The middle-aged suspect everything;
>                                 | The young know everything.
>                                 |                        -- Oscar Wilde
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:43:47 +1100
>From:    Garth Paine 
>Subject: Aiff Player
>
>Is there a FAT version of AIFF Player yet?
>
>Garth
>
>Sonic Residues: Sunday December 21, 1997
>Concert programme and installation list at
>http://creativeaccess.com.au/~garth
>
>>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<
>Garth Paine
>Composer, Sound Designer,
>Museums, Dance, Film, Theatre
>Interactive Immersive Environments
>Phone 61 3 95259844 (W)
>Fax 61 3 95275549
>
>"Immersive Virtual Environments - A Social Perspective"
>http://www.creativeaccess.com.au/~garth
><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:14:06 -0500
>From:    Tom Ritchford 
>Subject: Re: ctlout question
>
>Stephen Kay  wrote:
>>>I want to be able to pan a channel, and hear the pan WITHOUT having to
>>>retrigger the note. (I can do this fine with volume.)
>>
>>>Can anyone shed some light on this one? (Could this be a limitation of
>>>my tone module, Yamaha TG300?)
>>
>>Many synths operate this way - it's not necessarily a limitation.  For
>>example, KORG synths will not pan a sustaining note.
>
>[snip]
>
>>Roland Sound Canvas, on the other hand, operates the way you want -
>>the sound pans even without retriggering the note.
>
>The Kurzweil also has the same behavior as the Korg synths do.
>When I complained on the K2000 list, someone claimed that this
>was what the MIDI spec required for pan!
>
>        /t
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:53:27 -0700
>From:    Christopher Dobrian 
>Subject: Re: route
>
>Jeffrey Burns  wrote:
>
>>Has anyone out there written a _route_ object that will accept 88 or more
>>arguments??
>
>Link those babies. Make a route object with up to 10 arguments, then
>connect its rightmost outlet to another route object with up to 10
>arguments, then connect its rightmost outlet to another ...
>
>--Chris
>
>
>                              ----------------
>             Christopher Dobrian / School of the Arts - Music
>             University of California / Irvine, CA 92697-2775
>                Phone: (714) 824-7288 / Fax: (714) 824-4914
>                      http://www.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:24:25 EST
>From:    Bob Gluck 
>Subject: School question
>
>A non-tech question: which college/university MFA/PhD programs in
Electronic
>Music would any of you recommend most (esp. those that draw upon Max)?
>
>Bob Gluck
>Sheffield, MA
>http://members.aol.com/Rjgluck
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:35:18 -0500
>From:    Johnny DeKam 
>Subject: Re: JAZ Anomolies
>
>Iomega has confirmed that Disk utility programs (Norton included) corrupt
>JAZ disks.
>(The info is buried on their site but its there)
>
>According to Iomega, the only safe way to defragment a JAZ disk is to erase
it.
>There now exists Norton 3.5, which addresses OS8 incompatibility, but I am
>not aware of them addressing the JAZ problem. Bottom line: don't edit on a
>JAZ, using it as a backup or playback medium... periodically erase it using
>the "erase disk" command or using the JAZ tools utility.
>(GEEZ you'd think Iomega might have the courtesy to write a defrag utility
>for their so called "JAZ tools"!)
>
>To further complicate things Mac just came out with the HFS+ file system...
>which doesn't waste disk space like HFS (4k allocation blocks on any size
>Partition).  I am very curious how this might work into the audio playback
>equation, since as you pointed out, nonlinear editing often makes lots of
>small chunks of data.  The word is so far on HFS+ is that Norton and
>utilities will destroy an HFS+ partition.  Eventually that will be fixed
>I'm sure, but it might be too early to take the plunge.... but if I can get
>better performance with digital audio - who knows!
>
>Another anomoly I've experienced with JAZ and audio is weird.
>If I record using built in sound on a PPC, and play back those files
>directly off the JAZ
>on a nubus Protools system, the sounds playback slow as if the sampling
>rate had changed.
>Anyone seen this?  I just got the new free version of Protools Software for
>PPC, so maybe that changes things.
>
>Johnny DeKam
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:48:24 -0500
>From:    David Crandall 
>Subject: Re: so-called 'jaz' disk.
>
>On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Christopher Murtagh wrote:
>
>>  The funny thing is my EZdrive (135) has been the most fantastic drive I
>> have ever had, I don't understand how SyQuest has put out such a piece of
>
>On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Ben Nevile wrote:
>
>> I have experience with both drives, and I think the SyJet is a LOT
>> better.  You might want to ciheck out one of the new SyQuest drives.
>
>How'bout the EZ Flyer?  And any info on what's up w/SyJet's manufacturing
>process/revisions to explain people's widely varying experiences?  I
>apologize for taking up bandwidth on something that's only marginally
>on-topic, but I have to make a quick decision in replacing this defunct
>Jaz, and here we are talking about it... tried looking on the web for
>reliability comparisons and found nothing illuminating...
>
>David Crandall
>
>--------------
>"America's achievement: history's best-dressed peasant class."
>--------------
>dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:52:23 -0800
>From:    Peter Elsea 
>Subject: Jaz, CD
>
>The experiences here at UCSC with Jaz drives and carts have been pretty
>disappointing.
>Jaz drives seem to have a better than 50% failure rate.
>Carts seem to have about 80% failure rate when used for audio or video. ( I
>suspect it's 100%, but some just haven't died yet.)
>The problem seems to be that Jaz carts can't stand overheating. They are
>fine for mass backup in an external drive, but if you put them in an
>internal drive, and do the kind of continual writing audio and video
>demand, they will eventually fail. (We also have a long list of students
>who lost carts by leaving them in cars in the summer.)
>Since it's a matter of glue coming unstuck, sometimes when a cart goes, it
>takes the drive with it. And sometimes a damaged drive will kill carts.
>Iomega knows about this, and is making improvements, so the performance is
>slowly geting better.
>But until I'm convinced, my instructions to students are: Record on  a hard
>drive, then back up to Jaz.
>
>I haven't used a computer based CD burner yet, but I'm about to start, and
>have just done some research.
>Masterlist CD (expensive) will make real red book CDs (that is, they will
>play everywhere), but is very fussy about which burner you use. Digidesign
>has a list on their web site.
>Toast (Cheap, even free) makes a CD that plays on all but the oldest audio
>CD players.
>Other Mac software that claims to make audio CDs usually doesn't. (PC
>software, on the other hand, apparently works well.) Of course there's a
>difference between making a casual CD to send to your parents and a
>certified error free master for duplication.
>
>The reason I haven't gotten into this before is I believe in standalones.
>(They're so much easier to explain, plus if the machine supports session
>mode, the students can build up a CD over the term rather than having to
>use a new disk for each assignment. (Of course, now that discs are about a
>dollar, it doesn't matter so much.) Check out the Phillips 870, which will
>sell for about $600.
>
>Peter Elsea
>Electronic Music Studios
>University of California, Santa Cruz
>http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
> elsea@cats.ucsc.edu
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of MAX Digest - 1 Feb 1998 to 2 Feb 1998
>********************************************

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@loop.com
http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/
--home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--

>I will not answer
>Any more --
>Perhaps I will go
>Start a war!
>
>The public's easy
>To distract --
>When bombs are
>Falling on Iraq!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:45:20 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: one more thing about defrag

As I understand it, copying a file to another drive will defrag it,
(assuming enough contiguous free space).  Perhaps back your data up from a
Jaz, erase the Jaz, then copy the data back to the Jaz?

P

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@loop.com
http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/
--home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--

>I will not answer
>Any more --
>Perhaps I will go
>Start a war!
>
>The public's easy
>To distract --
>When bombs are
>Falling on Iraq!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:10:42 +0100
From:    "Dr. Karlheinz Essl" 
Subject: Re: Aiff Player

Garth Paine  asked:

> Is there a FAT version of AIFF Player yet?

I am also waiting on it since months, if not a year and more... However,
since msp is out, you can easily achieve the same job with "sfplay~" and
David's new "sfctrl~" which takes care of voice allocation and voice
stealing.

It works perfectly well, however, it requires msp...

You can download my MAX-patch for "Entsagung" (a piece for ensemble and
electronic sounds) which controls the playback of soundfiles from:

        http://www.essl.at/div/MAX/Entsagung-msp.pat.sit

to see how it works.

Hope that helps,

   Dr. Karlheinz Essl - Composer
   Vienna / Austria
   Studio for Advanced Music & Media Technology
   http://www.essl.at/

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 2 Feb 1998 to 3 Feb 1998 - Special issue
************************************************************