Subject: MAX Digest - 7 Dec 1997 to 8 Dec 1997
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:01:43 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 12 messages totalling 365 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Networking Max (2)
  2. Max on PC
  3. audio multiple voices player and random access
  4. other mailing lists
  5. MAX Digest - 25 Nov 1997 to 26 Nov 1997
  6. Mundane Help Request
  7. test
  8. That pesky wrong app problem
  9. humiliation == [and all that]
 10. Mundane Help Suggestion
 11. aesthetic discussion

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Date:    Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:19:59 -0800
From:    Tim Thompson 
Subject: Re: Networking Max

>I've also heard that there will be hooks for MIDI built into Java in the
near
>future, anyone heard anything?

A beta of the Java Media Framework, which includes Java Sound
(aka the Headspace Audio Engine) that allows the playback of MIDI files,
is available at http://www.javasoft.com   They still haven't revealed
any API for playing/controlling individual notes, as far as I can tell,
but it seems possible to generate MIDI files on the fly and
play them.  Having a standard API for doing real MIDI device I/O
(as opposed to just turning MIDI data into audio) appears to
be a long ways off.  I've been playing for several years with
extensions to Michael Hippolyte's native methods for MIDI I/O
in Java - if anyone's interested in that, send me email.

>A truly networked collaboritive music environment I consider in many ways
to
>be the holy grail of interactive music.  Imagine the insanity if all of us
on
>this list could be meeting on the web and plugging our max patches in
>together!

I'm currently building a Java-based chat-server-like system
which I intend to use as the back-end for collaborative music things.
If you haven't seen www.resrocket.com, check that out.  Anyone
know of any other interesting collaborative (in realtime) music
applications on the internet?   Anyone interested in collaborating
on collaborative music applications?   :-)

     Tim Thompson ... tjt@nosuch.com ... http://www.nosuch.com

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Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:43:34 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Max on PC

Ed Hartley  wrote:
>My life would become much simpler if I could ditch my old Powerbook and
>find a
> way
>to run Max on my considerably more up-to-date PC laptop.

Dunno about simpler. If you want a more up-do-date laptop, a new
PowerBook will fill the bill pretty well. Admittedly, they don't give
them away for free, but "es gibt kein kostenloses Mittagessen" or "il
n-y-a pas de diner libre". Antiorp can translate that into protopunk if
he feels so inclined.

Also note that there is still nothing like Max on Wintel. This may,
perhaps, change somdeday, but I'm not holding my breath.

>Does anyone know
>of a
>product like Connectix's Virtual PC that works the other way
>around-emulating a
> Mac
>under Windows or DOS?

Nothing reliable. Also note that a software emulation will do nothing to
enhance Max' timing. (Do I get a prize for understatement of the day?)

There _was_ a pretty good Mac emulation on Atari.

>Apparently, Apple has taken a pretty protective
> attitude
>towards the information on their ROM chips

Wouldn't you?

John Dvorak wrote an amusing backpage editorial, years ago, in MacUser,
suggesting that if folks complaining about Apple's restrictive attitude
to the Mac ROM were going to be consistent, they should also press Apple
to publish the ROM source code and put it into the public domain. Not
content to stop there, the argument would continue that Sculley (this was
a number of years ago, folks) should sell his wife and children into
white slavery... an so on.

Yeah, if you try to take it seriously it's a straw man, but it was meant
to be taken with a hefty dosage of salt. The point remains: who in the
industry is not protective about their software? And that's what the
content of a ROM is.

--------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ---------------
Dr. Peter Castine         |
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de   | Gegen Dummheit ist kein Kraut gewachsen.
                          |
                          |

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Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:43:02 +0100
From:    Isabelle Jenniches 
Subject: Re: audio multiple voices player and random access

(proudly presenting my first answer!)
--I made a patch that randomly accesses a number of aiff.files  through
aiffplay by Eric Singer using the Text.object to dispaly which file to
play. Use one file name per line of text with the prefix 'play' (e.g. 'play
sound4.aiff') and then attach a random to the text.object and a bang that
triggers the message box to get the 'play filename'message to the
aiff.player. You will first have to open all possible files but that seems
to be no big memory sucker (in my case, I have up to 25 files open at a
time, not all of them tiny)
--ij

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Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:04:22 +0100
From:    Isabelle Jenniches 
Subject: other mailing lists

Peter Nyboer wrote :

>Does anyone subscribe to a list that does discuss
>experimental/new/20th century music (any or all)?

anyone knows a list dealing with contemporary theater as well?

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Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:16:23 -0500
From:    Anthony Ferrara 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 25 Nov 1997 to 26 Nov 1997

signoff MAXlist

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:49:02 -0500
From:    Ken Gregory 
Subject: Re: Mundane Help Request

Hi David,

You can use ResEdit to change that creator code. And lots of other things
too!

Careful! Misuse of ResEdit could mess up a lot of things. Make a copy of
the file you are messin' with first.

Happy Day!
ken

>
>But wouldn't it be required if one wants to keep the "offending"
>application (as in the case of MaxPlay)?  I still feel some Mac utility
>that would allow "assignable" apps would be really useful...
>

Ken Gregory     kgregory@pangea.ca
704-138 Portage Ave. East
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3C 0A1
ph. 204-942-7510  fax 204-942-1555

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:39:20 +0000
From:    Jose Manrique 
Subject: test

test. Please, ignore

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 11:19:56 -0800
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: That pesky wrong app problem

This is the kind of thing that should go into an FAQ. To paraphrase a
complex discussion:
> I got this application, and now all my Max patches want to open it
>instead of Max.

SK ably pointed out the mistake the app maker did wrong  (change the
creator ID in ApplicationInstaller!). But we all have this problem
periodically when David Z forgets and builds a release of Max before the
companion MaxPlay.

The Mac OS uses the creation date to decide which application to launch
when there are duplicates of a given ID. So as =cw4t7abs pointed out,
resedit is your best hope. Here's what to do:
1. Launch resedit (you can get it free from a zillion places- resourcer
costs, and offers little advantage to the casual user.)
2. Click on the cute but tiring splash screen to make it go away ( I think
that splash screen accounts for at least half of resourcer's sales).
3. From the file menu, open Max.
4. From the file menu, choose get file info for Max
5. In the window that opens, note the creation date.
6. Close both windows.
7. In the resedit file menu, open the offending application.
8. Get file info for the application.
9. Change the creation date to something before Max. You must enter a valid
date- the day of the week and date have to match.
10 Save changes and quit resedit.
11. Restart and rebuild the desktop (hold down the command and option keys
while it reboots.)

You can do this with any conflicting applications (although I wouldn't try
on something that is copy protected).

There was a related problem, that has been fixed in the latest version of
ApplicationInstaller. When you used application maker to create an app,
that app would use 'max2' to sign in to OMS, so OMS would not allow two
homemade apps to run at the same time. You are going to still run into this
on apps made a year or so ago, and there's nothing you can do about it,
since you won't find that piece of code using resedit.

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
 elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

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Date:    Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:55:08 +0100
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Re: humiliation == [and all that]

>>Shifting gears...
>>A few issues ago there was a small thread about "aesthetic issues."
>>Evidently, since there hasn't been any aesthetic discussion on the list,
>>this is not the place.  Does anyone subscribe to a list that does discuss
>>experimental/new/20th century music (any or all)?
>

Well, emusic-l does sometimes.  Algo-comp used to, but there's nary a post
on that list for months at a time.  I guess algorithmic composition isn't
as popular as it used to be!

http://sunsite.unc.edu/emusic-l/

>electro-acoustic_d!szkussion
>=3D=3D akademik wank.

You know, Antiorp used to use the word (if you can call it that) "zpank"
and I used to wonder what he meant by that.  Now I know, and it's clear
that there's an awful lot of zpanking going on at his place.  ;-)

Regards, David

David Rodger,                       "Gee, I wonder if  Stockhausen has
Audio Engineer:                   ever met jazz artist/composer Sun Ra
Recording, Editing, Mastering            hails from Saturn? Maybe they
Aquatics:                                  could get and fix the Mir."
RLSS Lifeguard, Lifeguard Trainer           -- Elizabeth Hinkle-Turner
----------------------------------------------------------------------
auricle@alphalink.com.au          http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/motion/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:55:01 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Mundane Help Suggestion

Further to:
>>But wouldn't it be required if one wants to keep the "offending"
>>application (as in the case of MaxPlay)?  I still feel some Mac utility
>>that would allow "assignable" apps would be really useful...

Well, I was just browsing Mac Tech Note 1102, Mac OS 8
...

One of the nifty new features that are a bit tech for the mass media is a
new AppleEvent for the Finder, 'fopn', part of the Finder Event Suite. We
read

>       Before the Finder opens one or more documents using an application,
it
>sends a 'fopn'
>       Apple Event from the Finder Event suite (kAEFinderEventSuite
>'fndr'). Developers
>       wishing to override the Finder's normal document handling
>facilities can install a global
>       Apple Event handler to intercept these events and direct the Finder
>to discontinue
>       processing the open command.

So, now someone just has to volunteer to write a little applet that uses
this to redirect 'max2' documents to whatever the user assigns them to.

No, I'm not volunteering, I just wanted to mention that there's some
light on this subject.

Cheers,

Peter

PS & caveat: Further down the document, I note that Apple is not
promising to keep this new event. Well, we'll see what happens.

--------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ---------------
Dr. Peter Castine         |
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de   | Gegen Dummheit ist kein Kraut gewachsen.
                          |
                          |

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:15:25 +0100
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Re: aesthetic discussion

Jeff Mann quoted:
>It too felt that originality and innovation,
>the qualities which the Prix Arts Electronica esteems the highest, had
>wilted under the pressure to master the extrodinarily pervasive set of
>software tools that appear to have become studio standard issue -
>including ProTools, GRM Tools and SoundHack [and presumably Max -j.m.].
>It would, of course, be foolish to damn these fine applications, and
>that is certainly not the Jury's intention. But there is something about
>the over-reliance on them which obliges even good composers to risk
>scrificing the chance of speaking with a genuinely distinctive voice.
>What they have to say is somehow masked by what the technology does most
>easily. The deadly conformity extends beyond mere technique, which is
>often of admirable accomplishment, to an over-formulaic approach to
>gesture, pacing, and mood."

Maybe that's why so many of the works one heara at gigs like ICMC sound so
alike. OTOH, those who went to ICMC in Hong Kong last year might have been
delighted, like me, at the greater diversity of works, either from
Westerners who hadn't had a look in before, or from Asian composers.  I
haven't heard anything about Thesseloniki yet, but I hope the Hellenic
surroundings inspired a bit more than the usual "bing-plonk".

Regards, David

David Rodger,                       "Gee, I wonder if  Stockhausen has
Audio Engineer:                   ever met jazz artist/composer Sun Ra
Recording, Editing, Mastering            hails from Saturn? Maybe they
Aquatics:                                  could get and fix the Mir."
RLSS Lifeguard, Lifeguard Trainer           -- Elizabeth Hinkle-Turner
----------------------------------------------------------------------
auricle@alphalink.com.au          http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/motion/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:42:38 -0400
From:    David Gamper 
Subject: Re: Networking Max

I was at CCM at Mills College Nov. 21 for the HUB's test concert of
multi-site networked music. They used Grainwave for sound generation, which
I understand has a Max front end. For networking, they used eithernet UDP
over the Internet, with Max as an interpreter. PowerMacs were running Open
Transport. The CNMAT developed Max 'otudp' (open transport UDP?) objects
were used to send and receive packets.

http://www.cnmat.berkeley.edu/

Things worked, but crashes were frequent, which could have been unrelated
to the networking scheme.

- David G.

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End of MAX Digest - 7 Dec 1997 to 8 Dec 1997
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