Subject: MAX Digest - 6 Dec 1997 to 7 Dec 1997
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:01:51 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 8 messages totalling 354 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. humiliation == only en-joyable !f purposzful + pre.determ!nd
  2. Resedit and, umm... (2)
  3. other mailing lists
  4. Mundane Help Suggestion
  5. Networking Max
  6. Max on PC
  7. aesthetic discussion

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Date:    Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:56:16 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: humiliation == only en-joyable !f purposzful + pre.determ!nd

>One of the few things Windows does right is to allow the user to choose
>which app will open files of a given type (extension).  Makes me want to
>re-ask what I asked then, which is: is there an existing system resource
>that will allow Mac users to do this also?  Max isn't the only app where
>this happens for me, and I wish I could find a work-around.

=3D=3D rez3d!t+r3sorc3rer

\+\

>That would be cool.  Imagine a perfect world where the stability of
>AiffPlayer combined with the controls of Ichi, good looping ability, and
>the documentation of Lobjects.

=3D=3D liSa

>Plus, free RAM and an AV hard drive.  And
>free leather clothing, for maximumrockeffect.

plzt!k. kikx. besser.

> Well, maybe I'm getting
>carried away.  ANYWAY, I was able to get the ichi aiff object to cycle
>through files--i.e., play one, finish, then play the next.  It was also
>possible to set up multiple versions of these.  The delay between files was
>too upsetting, so the patch sits on my harddrive in messy "development"
>format.  If you don't mind an ugly patch, I can send it.

oki.human or!entd programm!ng.

>Shifting gears...
>A few issues ago there was a small thread about "aesthetic issues."
>Evidently, since there hasn't been any aesthetic discussion on the list,
>this is not the place.  Does anyone subscribe to a list that does discuss
>experimental/new/20th century music (any or all)?

electro-acoustic_d!szkussion
=3D=3D akademik wank.
+dze ultra geTTo rout!n
electronik musik d!skuss!on.    umph.umph.umph.hih.

entre le deux.
l!fe.1.anti[.symetry..]xper!enss          verdammt.

ganz super. mit gazmask.
+ schoko.-liklipkomponentz
no.more choc.d!sznacht=3Dspend kasch on ram.
dekorous gravit+e sh!v.r
kartes!an planes ov.space
kapital de la dureur

>Or mailinglists that
>discuss specific artists successes and failures?  Let us know...

dze vektorz konverge at
1 - volat!le junkture.
but 1 dzat !z susta!nd. -az an op3n ekuilibrium ov
sh!fting parTz each with !Tz own trajektor+e.
libidinal ekonom+e._dEr tunneL_
web part!kle !n mouth micro.7.bitparticle.formz|
kommunication+!nsert !n2 m9nd.port

rezultat -> la vie =3D souffrir
mozart piano concerto no.23
p!ano+orkestra =3D=3D orgazm

1 !ntermediar+e konvers!=F8n. anti[c] =3D_?
c.est tout.frrp.

---!noursikcsocietyevery1!zsikc
<>-[p u n K t p R o T o k o L]-
<>19 b!t sh!Ft reg!zt3r.
         hTTp://www.tezcat.com/~antiorp
dec!bel_rekordz-sukx.

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Date:    Sun, 7 Dec 1997 02:29:50 -0500
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Resedit and, umm...

On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, =cw4t7abs wrote:

> =3D=3D rez3d!t+r3sorc3rer

if anyone knows the correct spelling of the second app mentioned, or
better yet, a URL, I'd appreciate it.

David Crandall

--------------
"xmas grittings from mutable downtown malltimore..."
--------------
dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Dec 1997 09:29:14 +0100
From:    Le Quan Ninh 
Subject: other mailing lists

Peter Nyboer wrote :

>Does anyone subscribe to a list that does discuss
>experimental/new/20th century music (any or all)?

If you are interested in John Cage's music you can participate to the
Silence mailing list (send "subscribe silence" or "subscribe
silence-digest" to "majordomo@lists.realtime.net"). About this list you can
look at : http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/Cage/

If you are an improvised music addict you will be interested to participate
to the MICC mailing list - Mostly Improv Coffee Clatch - (including
interactive computer music) (send "subscribe micc your name" to
"listproc@miles.engr.sgi.com")

If you read french, you can subscribe to the Fennec mailing list (send an
empty message to "liste-subscribe@fennec.digiweb.fr")

Ninh

__________________________________________
              Le Quan Ninh
            ninh@musique.net
      http://www.musique.net/ninh/
__________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Dec 1997 03:24:45 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Resedit and, umm...

>> =3D3D=3D3D rez3d!t+r3sorc3rer

>if anyone knows the correct spelling of the second app mentioned, or
>better yet, a URL, I'd appreciate it.

>David Crandall

Resorcerer. BTW, I recently purchased it, (not freeware,
price variable depending on the deal $128 - $256). =

and I must admit that
it has _not_ wooed me away from ResEdit.  Maybe I haven't given
it the time required (other experiences welcome) but I don't
see that it's necessarily any better than ResEdit (except for
anti-aliasing of icons when drawing in icon editors).

Url:

www.mathemaesthetics.com

Try typing or pronouncing that quickly 3 times...

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:38:23 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Mundane Help Suggestion

>But wouldn't it be required if one wants to keep the "offending"
>application (as in the case of MaxPlay)?  I still feel some Mac utility
>that would allow "assignable" apps would be really useful...

Well, there's always plain vanilla drag-and-drop.

Keep a folder with aliases to all your 'max2' apps (Max, MaxPlay,
LoShuMax, etc.), then drag your Patcher Doc onto the appropriate apps.

Alternately (for folks who find that a folder takes up too much desktop
real estate), I will confess a fondeness for a little utility called
HoverBar (which, since v. 1.3.1 also works on OS 8). It's yet another
Launcher _ersatz_, but lets you choose between three different size
buttons. The smallest buttons are about 18x18 pixels, so they don't take
up too much space. I generally have a few hovering at the edge of my
desktop.

Oh, and it's called HoverBar because the palettes _do_ hover over
everything else. So, no need to bring the app to the front to use it.

Available at the usual sites.

Hope this helps,

Peter

--------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ---------------
Dr. Peter Castine         |
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de   | Gegen Dummheit ist kein Kraut gewachsen.
                          |
                          |

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:33:30 +0000
From:    Johnny DeKam 
Subject: Networking Max

I had experimented awhile back with an object called TCP/IP made by the guys
at Rainstick in the Netherlands... I had some limited success, it works on a
client/server mode of operation and essentially puts MIDI data into packets.
Didn't seem to work over modem connections.  I too am very interested in
networking Max especially to allow collaboritive music over the internet.
Other suggestions out there would be most appreciated and I'd love to open
the debate as to the capabilities of Max and the internet, for example, why
don't we have a Netscape plugin for Max apps?!  Will Opcode EVER address
cross platform issues?

I've also been working with a fellow named Tim Thompson in Silcon Valley who
has written a very Max like environment for the PC, and has ported the code
to other platforms, most interesting however is that his "Key Kit" as it's
called can export all its code to Perl, and be called up by CGI script on a
web server.  This allows for  web based algorhythmic midi processing, even
image analysis ---> midi files.  Its draw back however is that it must
process the data and spit back a midi file, which is then immediatly played
(cool).  but it does not have any realtime capabilities (streaming midi
etc).  It seems such a system might be possible given the right
client/server
model.

You can see some of these web midi tools at:

http://www.arts.rpi.edu/ca/ind/music/   (with a newly designed interface!)

I've also heard that there will be hooks for MIDI built into Java in the
near
future, anyone heard anything?

A truly networked collaboritive music environment I consider in many ways to
be the holy grail of interactive music.  Imagine the insanity if all of us
on
this list could be meeting on the web and plugging our max patches in
together!

Johnny DeKam
http://www.rpi.edu/~dekamj/

>
>
> I am working on a undergrad project that will involve networking computers
> across campus, and possibly over the internet.  I am extremely comfortable
> using max now for creating the content, but I have been having a hard time
> finding an object that networks machines outside of MIDI.  Protocols that
> I have available are Appletalk, TCP/IP, Novell, and all of these are
> through ethernet connections.  If anyone could point me in the direction
> of an object that gives a fairly stable, efficient connection in any of
> these methods that would be great.
> Thanks,
> Andy Kuritzky
>

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:43:55 -0500
From:    Ed Hartley 
Subject: Max on PC

My life would become much simpler if I could ditch my old Powerbook and find
a
 way
to run Max on my considerably more up-to-date PC laptop. Does anyone know of
a
product like Connectix's Virtual PC that works the other way
around-emulating a
 Mac
under Windows or DOS? I read about a software product called "Executor" but
it
didn't sound very stable. Apparently, Apple has taken a pretty protective
 attitude
towards the information on their ROM chips and that makes the job next to
impossible. There's a product called "Gemulation" that looks pretty good but
it
uses an ISA card with Apple ROMs-that won't work in my laptop.

I hope I haven't offended anyone with my PC questions. My main computer is
still
 a
Mac (ok, it's a clone).

Ed Hartley

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:50:09 -0500
From:    Jeff Mann 
Subject: aesthetic discussion

Peter Nyboer  wrote:

>A few issues ago there was a small thread about "aesthetic issues."
>Evidently, since there hasn't been any aesthetic discussion on the list,
>this is not the place.

Just in case this _is_ the place... here's what the Prix Ars Electronica
Computer Music Jury had to say this year about current practice and the
influence of software packages like Max:

"The Music Jury last year drew attention to some of the many categories
of music and music making which qualify to be dubbed "computer music",
and to the way in which the practitioners of the genre had failed to
realise that it had "matured" to such an extent that, in terms of both
technique and gestural language, it had lapsed into cliche when it was
clearly intended to be "serious". True, the Jury encountered many an
honourable exception, the prize-winning works among them, but listening
to over 250 pieces in a short period of time made it clear that much
computer music was becoming the oldest swinger in town. This year's Jury
comprised 80 per cent new personnel, with different backgrounds and
interests, but their views were largely similar to those on which the
Jury signed off last year. It too felt that originality and innovation,
the qualities which the Prix Arts Electronica esteems the highest, had
wilted under the pressure to master the extrodinarily pervasive set of
software tools that appear to have become studio standard issue -
including ProTools, GRM Tools and SoundHack [and presumably Max -j.m.].
It would, of course, be foolish to damn these fine applications, and
that is certainly not the Jury's intention. But there is something about
the over-reliance on them which obliges even good composers to risk
scrificing the chance of speaking with a genuinely distinctive voice.
What they have to say is somehow masked by what the technology does most
easily. The deadly conformity extends beyond mere technique, which is
often of admirable accomplishment, to an over-formulaic approach to
gesture, pacing, and mood." *

It goes on to say that this year's "Golden Nica" prize went to Matt
Heckert for "Munich Samba", a performance/installation that consists of
sounds produced only by mechanical machines under computer sequencer
control (didn't say which one); no tapes, samples or any other auxiliary
sound, no loudspeakers.

They did allow, however, that "one can see that among the entries of
"pure" computer music on tape (85% of the entries), some works continue
to establish a high quality reference in the genre ... when artists of
imagination and skill try to overcome the obviousness prescribed by the
tools, their works continue to enlarge the sonic soundscape and artistic
perception in general." *

* From the Statement of the Computer Music Jury, Prix Ars Electronica
1997, copyright by Osterreichischer Rundfunk, excerpted under fair use
principle for review. Typos mine. Full text is available in "cyberarts
International Compendium Prix Ars Electronica, SpringerWien, NY. Your
mileage may vary. This is only a text. Professional driver on closed
track. Do not attempt this. Stop that.
--
Jeff Mann - Information Consumer ___O___O__= -- >
mailto:jefman@utcc.utoronto.ca ||   http://www.interlog.com/~jefman
Visit the Art & Robotics Group site: http://www.interaccess.org/arg

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End of MAX Digest - 6 Dec 1997 to 7 Dec 1997
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