Subject: MAX Digest - 5 Dec 1997 to 6 Dec 1997
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:00:08 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
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There are 9 messages totalling 354 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. video cards
  2. off topic (toxic)
  3. Mundane Help Request (3)
  4. Mundane Help Request  "LoShuMax.max.."
  5. video cards (Truevision/Miro)
  6. audio multiple voices player and random access
  7. Audio stuff...

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Date:    Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:52:25 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: video cards

C.Smith wrote

>paper, but I haven't tried it yet.  Plus I was wondering if there is
different
>hardware that would be better.

I don't offer an opinion if any of the following are "better," just that
these things exist....
Truevision makes some good  p r 0 d U k t  z| called the Bravado, Targa
1000, and Targa 2000.  The Bravado is a lower priced board (~US$700.00 )
that can output 640x480 at up to 30fps, but that would require a good
amount of compression, I believe.  The Bravado is more of an entry level
board, but its picture quality is rated pretty high in digital video
reviews I have seen.  The Targa 1000 sells for about US$1700 (with Premier,
oftentimes) and can output NTSC or PAL video, but doesn't support an
additional monitor.  To get that, you would need to get the Targa 2000,
which goes for around US$3100.  I have used the Targa 2000, and it is a
very nice card with a very clean proprietary compression that gives
"broadcast quality" (a vague description that means "we sell this thing to
studios to cut video.").  Both of these boards come in a "Pro" version that
adds additional aspect ratios and Beta inputs.  These prices are pretty
steep, and to get the best video out of them, you'll need a good A/V drive
or a disk array.  However, Truevision often sells reconditioned units at
substantially lower prices.  More detail is at www.truevision.com.
On the more affordable side, a company called Miro sells some boards that
may serve pretty well called the DC20 and the DC30, which go for around
$600-$800 respectively.  These seem pretty popular, but that is all I can
tell you.  Most of these boards have composite and S-video ins/outs.
Sorry to be so scanty, but I thought I'd get some names and specs out there
that I haven't seen on this list.  BUT!...

For creating pretty video, I recommend Adobe AfterEffects.  For easy fades,
cuts, and digital audio sync, Premier is the way to go, but for some
stunning effects and good color keying, AfterEffects is wonderful.  As a
musician used to MIDI sequencers, I found the AfterEffects interface very
easy to get used to, since it works on a similar tracks system.  The nice
thing about AfterEffects is the ability to easily layer many images and use
a variety of effects (including any Photoshop effects varied over time).
The motion abilities are wonderful as well, since you can set specific
velocity curves for a movement, rather than the vague "Ease-In/Ease-out"
that Premier usually offers.  Any layer can have any effect, whereas
Premier depends on 2 video tracks and the transitions between them (not to
mention the fact that most of Premier's transitions are pretty cheesy!),
with additional superimposed video available on top of those (meant for
titles, really).
A friend of mine offered the opinion that it is possible to do anything in
Premier that you can do in AfterEffects, but for someone interested in
creating avant-garde video, AfterEffects is the place to work.

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@ucla.edu
http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/
home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--
including a full album of music!
"a cellular phone, pepper spray, and maybe even a Smith and Wesson"--SUV
Driver, on safety needs

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:03:39 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: off topic (toxic)

This is off-topic, but if any of you have children and a toxic waste site,
take a look here:
http://www.epa.gov/superfund/oerr/comtools/newindex/sfkids.htm
with particular emphasis on
http://www.epa.gov/superfund/oerr/comtools/coloring/col_home.htm

Perhaps this is not entirely relevant, but it may inspire someone
artistically!  Plus, all of the non-US readers get a chance to experience
waste and children in America.

Peter.

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@ucla.edu
http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/
home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--
including a full album of music!
"a cellular phone, pepper spray, and maybe even a Smith and Wesson"--SUV
Driver, on safety needs

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:14:45 -0500
From:    Nicholas J Patterson 
Subject: Mundane Help Request

Dear MAXers,

I hate to bother the list with this mundane question, but I'm a MAX novice
and need help. I downloaded a little MAX application called "LoShuMax" by
Otto Henry, ran it once or twice, and I now find that every MAX document
lists "LoShuMax.max.." as the "kind" in the folder display, and when I
click on any of the MAX objects to open them, they ask for LoShuMax. I
don't want this app. any more, but all of MAX seems to be held hostage by
it. If I start up MAX (3.0) first, I can then open things normally, but
anything I open from the Finder launches the LoShuMax application.

Can anyone tell me how to get rid of this? And, was this a mistake in the
way the LoShuMax application was written, and if so, what was done wrong?
I would hate to have something I wrote tie up someone's files like this.

Thanks for any advice, and for the great information that flows through
this list.

Nick Patterson
Music & Arts Library
Columbia University

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:16:36 -0500
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: Mundane Help Request  "LoShuMax.max.."

On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Nicholas J Patterson wrote:

> I hate to bother the list with this mundane question, but I'm a MAX novice
> and need help. I downloaded a little MAX application called "LoShuMax" by
> Otto Henry, ran it once or twice, and I now find that every MAX document
> lists "LoShuMax.max.." as the "kind" in the folder display, and when I
> click on any of the MAX objects to open them, they ask for LoShuMax.

I ran into this a couple years back and the answer turned out to be that
the Mac assigns the *last newly installed* application as the one to open
files of a given type, and the solution was to re-install Max so that it
would then be the most recent one.

One of the few things Windows does right is to allow the user to choose
which app will open files of a given type (extension).  Makes me want to
re-ask what I asked then, which is: is there an existing system resource
that will allow Mac users to do this also?  Max isn't the only app where
this happens for me, and I wish I could find a work-around.

David Crandall

--------------
"America's achievement: history's best-dressed peasant class."
--------------
dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:22:50 -0500
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: video cards (Truevision/Miro)

I haven't had the chance to test this directly, but I can only assume this
would apply to Max:  Pro Tools documentation recommends *against* the use
of Truevision boards for syncing video to sound in that program.  Seems
the video compression/decompression is hardware-based and "takes over" the
computer during playback.  I've noticed this on the Truevision setup we
have at school: nothing else can happen during output.

OTOH, Pro Tools recommends *in favor* of a Miro board, esp using Cinepak
compression, because it allows the rest of the system to run Pro Tools
while the video is going.  I guess this would apply to Max as well...

David Crandall

--------------
"America's achievement: history's best-dressed peasant class."
--------------
dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:10:15 -0500
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: audio multiple voices player and random access

I've been following this thread in hopes of seeing some new solution, but
remembering that I did a patch a couple of years ago (on Max 2.5.2) using
Singer's AiffPlayer object (the older version) and a set of coll files
(containing numbers paired with file names) and random number objects to
randomly play sound files listed in those colls.  The patch was designed
to prevent overlap in the sounds, but during testing I did get polyphony
without apparent problems.

The problem I had was that the system would not dispose of allocated
memory after playing a given sound, and so would gradually run out of
memory. Never have gotten around to fixing the patch, nor did I ascertain
for sure whether it was a Max 2.5.2 problem or an AiffPlay(er) problem.
Having just now tried it (using 2.5.2 on a PM 7600), the current Singer
AiffPlay object does seem to handle the memory better, though the patch
was not entirely trouble-free.

Hope this is helpful.

David Crandall

--------------
"America's achievement: history's best-dressed peasant class."
--------------
dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:29:22 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Mundane Help Request

Nicholas J. Patternson asks:
>I hate to bother the list with this mundane question, but I'm a MAX novi=
ce
>and need help. I downloaded a little MAX application called "LoShuMax" b=
y
>Otto Henry, ran it once or twice, and I now find that every MAX document=

>lists "LoShuMax.max.." as the "kind" in the folder display, and when I
>click on any of the MAX objects to open them, they ask for LoShuMax. I
>don't want this app. any more, but all of MAX seems to be held hostage b=
y
>it. If I start up MAX (3.0) first, I can then open things normally, but
>anything I open from the Finder launches the LoShuMax application.

>Can anyone tell me how to get rid of this? And, was this a mistake in th=
e
>way the LoShuMax application was written, and if so, what was done wrong=
?
>I would hate to have something I wrote tie up someone's files like this.=

You must remove the LoShuMax app, and rebuild your desktop, to get "Max"
back again.  =

This is indeed a _problem_ with the way the app was written, but
unfortunately it's one that's easy to do.

When an application is created for the Macintosh, its file type
is 'APPL', and its creator type is a custom, 4-letter type.  For
Max, the creator type is 'max2'. It is this
file type that allows the application and its documents to have
custom icons, and what controls which application launches when you
open a document.  For example, a max patcher has creator type 'max2',
file type 'maxb' or 'TEXT'.  When you double-click on a Max patcher
the finder looks for the application 'APPL' with the creator type
'max2' and opens it.

The problem is that when you create an installed App with Max, =

it gives you the opportunity to assign a unique creator ID.  If you =

don't do it, then it gives it the same creator id as Max, 'max2'.

When you put LoShuMax on your hard drive, it became the newest
application with creator type 'max2', thereby replacing Max in
the Finder's desktop database.  So every Max document now becomes
a LoShuMax document.  As I said, the only way to fix it is to
remove LoShoMuax, and rebuild the desktop.

> I would hate to have something I wrote tie up someone's files like this=
=2E

Me too! These kinds of (recurring) problems could be completely avoided
if people who are going to distribute installed Max Applications
would take the extra time to deal with the issues of creator
types, and not simply leave it the default Max creator type.

David Crandall says:
>I ran into this a couple years back and the answer turned out to be that=

>the Mac assigns the *last newly installed* application as the one to ope=
n
>files of a given type, and the solution was to re-install Max so that it=

>would then be the most recent one.

As mentioned above, only rebuilding the desktop is necessary.
Reinstallation is overkill.

Stephen Kay
-------- The MegaMAX Application Developer's Collection --------
 Full color 3D UI Objects for creating professional looking apps,
     Macintosh Interface objects, and other Max helpers.
-----------check out the demo on the MAX 3.5 CD----------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:03:00 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: Audio stuff...

Bonjour,

>...you can specify
>>an AIFF folder in your Max file preferences, keep all needed AIFFS there,
>>then use a combination of the menu and folder objects to read in all the
>>AIFF filenames
...
>Yes indeed it must be possible but each time I tried something like that
>(whith Ichi objects),
>it went wrong on the way and the machine freezed and was hard to restart.
>So I which that it could be easyer. Why not, for example, making a new
playlist
>object, but with rolling voices and a few controls. I hope someone will
>make this.

That would be cool.  Imagine a perfect world where the stability of
AiffPlayer combined with the controls of Ichi, good looping ability, and
the documentation of Lobjects.  Plus, free RAM and an AV hard drive.  And
free leather clothing, for maximumrockeffect.  Well, maybe I'm getting
carried away.  ANYWAY, I was able to get the ichi aiff object to cycle
through files--i.e., play one, finish, then play the next.  It was also
possible to set up multiple versions of these.  The delay between files was
too upsetting, so the patch sits on my harddrive in messy "development"
format.  If you don't mind an ugly patch, I can send it.

Shifting gears...
A few issues ago there was a small thread about "aesthetic issues."
Evidently, since there hasn't been any aesthetic discussion on the list,
this is not the place.  Does anyone subscribe to a list that does discuss
experimental/new/20th century music (any or all)?  Or mailinglists that
discuss specific artists successes and failures?  Let us know...

Peter.

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@ucla.edu
http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/
home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--
including a full album of music!
"a cellular phone, pepper spray, and maybe even a Smith and Wesson"--SUV
Driver, on safety needs

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:52:16 -0500
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: Mundane Help Request

On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Stephen Kay wrote:

> As mentioned above, only rebuilding the desktop is necessary.
> Reinstallation is overkill.

But wouldn't it be required if one wants to keep the "offending"
application (as in the case of MaxPlay)?  I still feel some Mac utility
that would allow "assignable" apps would be really useful...

David Crandall

--------------
"The secret of happiness is to be easily entertained."
--------------
dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu

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End of MAX Digest - 5 Dec 1997 to 6 Dec 1997
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