Subject: MAX Digest - 23 Nov 1997 to 24 Nov 1997
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 00:00:31 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 13 messages totalling 397 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. =?iso-8859-1?Q?f=F8ntz?=
  2. To MIME or not to MIME (2)
  3. AiffPlayer + ComicRelief (2)
  4. storing font names (was !!#$Krap)
  5. splitting hairs, egos, and aesthetics
  6. screen captures
  7. Ze Drem (2)
  8. ==
  9. access to the patcher struct in external
 10. 

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Date:    Sun, 23 Nov 1997 22:25:48 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?f=F8ntz?=

=cw4t7abs  "writes":

>what logik does max uze 2assign fonts.
>4ecsampl 1 standalone which specifiez 1partikular font
>!s savd on 1 komputer.
>app !s dzen transportd 2 1 2nd komputer.
>font originall+e specified !s provided + !nstalld.
>dze app howevr ut!lizes d- 1st font availabl
>on d!sz zystem.

(English translation:

What logic does Max use to assign fonts?
For example, a standalone that specifies a particular
font is saved on one computer. The app is then transported
to a second computer. The font originally specified is
installed. The app however utilizes the first font available
the this system.)

Max encodes text fonts by font number not name. This is a flaw for
transportability of patches if you are using fonts that
aren't some of the standard ones. If you really want something to
appear in a particular non-standard font, you'll have to
use pictures. Or I suppose someone could write a new comment
object that saves the font name rather than the number.

David Z.

PS Check out antiorp's web page.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:52:29 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: To MIME or not to MIME

Tom Mays  writes:
>>>concerning >nGl!sh =3D 3R-d ln-gwAj<<  (no native speaker
>
>>>hickups???!
>
>
>Would those of you who see the word "bold" written 4 times in the above
>text like to join a petition to maintain an ASCII ONLY email universe?!

1) Let's differentiate between MIME and HTML.

2) I agree that, in 1997/98, including HTML-tags in e-mail is bad form.

3) MIME, OTOH, has been around for... what, a decade? Any decent e-mail
client can interpret MIME-encoded characters (diacritical marks, etc.). I
know we've made do without for a few years longer, but for most European
languages 7-bit ASCII sucks. Writing German without umlauts and
sz-ligature is just plain illiterate. Ditto for any of the contemporary
Roman languages without accents.

What does all this have to do with the Max list? Just that I think it's
about time the list server (McGill's in particular, but also list servers
in general) started handling MIME-encoded text more gracefully in its
digests. Now, *that* petition I'll sign.

Cheers,

Peter

PS: Looking at me last sentence, I feel more and more that 7-bit ASCII is
not a particularly hot medium for emphasizing text. I have no desire to
start using a Web browser for reading mail, but I will shed no tears if
the time comes that e-mail clients start to support HTML formatting tags.
(And if all spam came using the  tag, we'd have a simple and
reliable way of letting our mail readers kill the spam automatically).

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 06:46:49 -0700
From:    Kevin Walker 
Subject: Re: To MIME or not to MIME

>3) MIME, OTOH, has been around for... what, a decade? Any decent e-mail
>client can interpret MIME-encoded characters (diacritical marks, etc.)
> [...]
>
>What does all this have to do with the Max list? Just that I think it's
>about time the list server (McGill's in particular, but also list servers
>in general) started handling MIME-encoded text more gracefully in its
>digests. Now, *that* petition I'll sign.

I'm sure you're aware of this, but others might not be:  Problems with
MIME-encoding on email lists ("=3D" etc) have little to do with the
capabilities of subscribers' email clients.  List servers send to strip out
the header information that lets the client know the MIME-type of the body
of the email, especially in the case of digests, when the individual
messages might have a variety of MIME types.  So until your petition is
successful, it seems best to send only straight ASCII to the list.

(To the extent that this sounds like a complaint about other subscriber's
posting practices, it should be interpreted as a very mild one.  If people
find it difficult to change, I'm willing to put up with all sorts of
wierdness on this list.)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:59:41 +0100
From:    dudas 
Subject: Re: AiffPlayer + ComicRelief

Tom Mays says:

>I can't tell "creative character uses" from MIME, from RTF from binhex=20
>from just plain spelling errors, from ...
>
>aaaaarrrgghh!
>
>tm
>(pas fach=E9, mais franchement d=E9courag=E9
>  ((If you see the above accents correctly YOU ARE A SUSPECT!))
>
>      <<"strictly ascii" for the last three years...>>

I only have one thing to say Master Zoron,

GET A GRIP!!!!!!!!!!

-Herr Xoaz

P.S. I will forever pronounce 'iter' like "eye-turr" and 'coll' like "cawl".

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:08:49 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: storing font names (was !!#$Krap)

>Max encodes text fonts by font number not name. This is a flaw for
>transportability of patches if you are using fonts that
>aren't some of the standard ones. If you really want something to
>appear in a particular non-standard font, you'll have to
>use pictures. Or I suppose someone could write a new comment
>object that saves the font name rather than the number.

Someone has.  The MegaMAX Collection's 3D_Label, Color_Label, =

3D_Text_Button and other text-using objects store the font name.
Therefore, if you use non-standard fonts, and include a copy
with your app to be installed, the correct font will be
displayed.

Not to mention that Color_Label allows you to place colored,
_transparent_ labels in any style (bold, italic, etc.), font,
color, size...

There is a demo on the 3.5 CD-Rom.  In the next few weeks I
will be putting up a web page, where info can be found, demo
versions downloaded, and updates downloaded by registered
users.

Stephen Kay
-------- The MegaMAX Application Developer's Collection --------
 Full color 3D UI Objects for creating professional looking apps,
     Macintosh Interface objects, and other Max helpers.
-----------check out the demo on the MAX 3.5 CD----------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 18:31:45 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: splitting hairs, egos, and aesthetics

Someone said:
>>Wow: aesthetic debate. We should have more of this

And Nick replied:
>I don't think so.  Too much potential for bruised egos.  In fact, I
apologize
>to the director of Hair.  I'd had a little too much whiskey.  For the
record
>though, I didn't like Jesus Christ Superstar either.

I'm all for aesthetic debate _if_ it's at a deeper (or higher) level than
"I don't like so-and-so". Alas, e-mail fora don't have a good record for
keeping discussions of things we're emotionally attached to on an even
keel.

However, for all I'm not a big fan of Lloyd Webber, Hair, or Wacko Jacko,
it is interesting and encouraging to see that Max is becoming a tool that
is used in these more popular contexts, as well as in the artsy-fartsy
(to quote the late John Lennon) sort of surroundings many of us dwell in.
"Interesting" because it indicates that even popular musicians are
running into the limits of conventional MIDI sequencers and librarians;
"encouraging" because interest in Max from these quarters has more
potential (I think) to make Max a profitable part of Opcode's business
than _l'art pour l'art_ types like myself.

Cheers,

Peter -- who confesses to having once liked Hair a lot, but I've changed
in many ways since then...

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 10:02:19 -0800
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: screen captures

>From the readme that comes with 7.6:
(In adition to the familiar cmd-shift 3 which captures the entire screen as
a PICT file)
* Enhanced screen capture options
You can copy portions of the screen, and copy the screen images to the
Clipboard or a file. Use the following keyboard combinations:
* Command-Shift-Control-3 copies a picture of the entire desktop to the
Clipboard.
* Command-Shift-4 creates a picture file of a rectangular selection of the
desktop. After pressing and releasing the key combination, position the
cursor at the upper-left corner of the area you want to capture, then drag
to the lower-right corner. If you continue to press the Shift key while
dragging the cursor, the capture area will be constrained to a square.
* Command-Shift-4-Caps Lock creates a picture file of a window. After
pressing the key combination, click the window you want to capture.
*To save the rectangle or window on the Clipboard instead of as a file,
press the Control key as you click. To cancel a Command-Shift-4 screen
selection, press the Space bar.

Flash-it! and ScreenShot are both excellent utilities that provide similar
functionality in earlier systems. I particularly like Screenshot, becuause
you have more destinations for your graphics (straight to printer, for
instance) and have more options on the transfer, like changing color to B&W.
Unfortunately in 7.6 the system gets the key combination first so neither
works reliably.

By the way, if you are doing this sort of thing with Max windows, be sure
not to cut and paste anything in Max, because if you do, the cipboard gets
left in text mode and all you get is whatever text you were pasting, rather
than the pictures of objects.

(By the way, there are bullets in the above list, so I'm going to turn off
quoted printable and see what I get in the digest.)

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
 elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:05:02 -0800
From:    Jaime Heilpern 
Subject: Ze Drem

Hi All-

In light of all attention =cw4t7abs has been given, there is some
recent news that might have impact. The European Union
commissioners have announced that an agreement has been
reached to adopt English as the preferred language for
European communications, rather than German, which was the
other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's
Government conceded that English spelling has some room for
improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what
will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c".
Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy.  Also
the hard "c" will be replaced with "k".  Not only will this klear
up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.

There will be grown publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when
the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f".  This will make
words like "fotograf" 20 per sent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be
expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are
possible.  Governments will enkorage the removal of double
letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.
Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the
languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as
replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by "v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords
kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer
kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl.  Zer
vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evriun vil find it ezi to
understan ech ozer.

Ze drem vil finali kum tru.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:50:29 -0800
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: ==

I got a note back that my *'s were *'s in that last message.
Now quoted printable is back on and we'll see.

(Shall we chip in and buy Stephen a copy of Eudora? )

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
 elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:03:33 -0500
From:    Eric Singer 
Subject: Re: AiffPlayer + ComicRelief

On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Isabelle Jenniches wrote:

> Is there a possibility to change the pitch of a file you play in Eric
> Singer's AiffPlayer?

Sorry, not possible the way I have implemented it.  For changing pitch,
try the 'snd' object, which plays from memory instead of direct from disk.

Eric

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:28:54 +0000
From:    Jean Favory 
Subject: access to the patcher struct in external

Someone can tell me if it is possible, in a normal external object
(not one with a user interface), to have access to the patcher struct
containing it.

Thank you in advance.

Jean.
--
http://www.cosa-mentale.fr/MIM.html

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:41:58 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Ze Drem

>After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl.  Zer
>vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evriun vil find it ezi to
>understan ech ozer.

>Ze drem vil finali kum tru.

Hilarious!  Oops, i men reli funi!

stefn k

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:35:57 +1000
From:    James Rhodes 
Subject: 

Reg.No.508.350.00021118
I am the Drama Theatre Technician at Griffith Uni Gold Coast and have just
purchased MAX. We perform a lot of mutimedia shows.

Equipment:      -Jands Event (with Midi in only) Lighting board 24 channels.
                -Power Machintosh 6500/275 Multimedia Computer,48meg
Ram.4gigHD
                -Avid Cinema video editing card and software.
                -SoundEdit 16 software
                -Soundcraft desk etc.
                -Sony video projector.
                -no Keyboard!!!!!

I have linked my Lighting Desk via a midi interface and OMS (channel 16) to
my Mac.
I origiginally was going to design the lighting desk using MAX on screen,
but poo pooed that idea and decided to program the Board the old way but
cue from the Mac (midi note 58 = master assign fader 11).
I need a TimeLine that triggers from the space bar or mouse etc. a cue and
stops ready for the next cue.
A cue could trigger the next lighting program, play a sound sample, play a
video clip, show a still image, etc.
The manual has given me a basic understanding but all the tutorials are
keyboard oriented. I need help.
With thanks, James Rhodes

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End of MAX Digest - 23 Nov 1997 to 24 Nov 1997
**********************************************