Subject: MAX Digest - 20 Nov 1997 to 21 Nov 1997
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 00:01:12 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 20 messages totalling 499 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Close menu not active for external wind (2)
  2. Active applications
  3. Sensors
  4. QT, RealTime Graphics
  5. QT, Realtime Graphics: in the other direction (2)
  6. video
  7. splitting hairs
  8. nGl!sh = 3R-d ln-gwAj (2)
  9. Video Capture
 10. Equals signs problem (test3)
 11. Equals signs problem (test2)
 12. Equals signs problem (test1)
 13. "=" problem (to the list)
 14. "=" problem take 2
 15. QT, Realtime Graphics: in the other d
 16. QTMA Atomic Editor
 17. "=" problem (take 3)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:37:38 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Close menu not active for external wind

Stephen Kay writes:

I've got an external which is creating a window in Max with a close box. =
 =

Although the close box properly closes the window, the Close item in the =
File =

menu is not active.  It does not appear that it needs to be set with the =

chkmenu command.  Am I missing something?

First, to the maintainer of this list. There is clearly a
problem with Stephen's submissions to the mailing list, as
well as those of a number of other people. When Stephen sends
me e-mail, the equal signs do not show up at the end of
each of his lines along with lots of empty space. It may be
that Stephen doesn't hit return at the end of a line like I do.
It might be a good practice for people to do this, and
make your lines a bit shorter so as to avoid the dreaded equal sign
until the mailing list program can be tuned to eliminate
this unwelcome addition.

Second, to Stephen: I sent you an example of an external
object with the Close menu item enabled and working. What did
you do to screw it up?

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:37:14 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Active applications

=cw4t7abs  writes:

>!s there 1 max objekt which pollz 4 aktiv applications.
>+ also perhaps 4 frontmost app.

Yes, I wrote one a while back and I'll be making it available
soon. Hope it does what you want.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:48:24 +0200
From:    Guenther Albrecht 
Subject: Sensors

Though we planned a lot we did nor aquire the I-cube sensors this
autumn. but to be on the safe side for next years productions we will
try to order
this year & start evaluating & experimenting in the silent time of the
year.
Any news? anyone tried the new I-cube with offline memory? how
complicated algorhythms can he store? Any new rivals?
The UK based (Univ. Huddersfield) systerm has its merrits but is just
programmable from a PC...

regards

.g.a.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:48:50 +0200
From:    Guenther Albrecht 
Subject: Re: QT, RealTime Graphics

>Johnny DeKam wrote:
>-Xpose- is a program written by some techno guys in Belgium (I beleive)
>which is built from the ground up as a visual midi controlled sampler.

Spring this year in Frankfurt (music fare) STEINBERG presented the
version  X<>Pose 1.1 with new features like QT movie export & real time
video fx (www.steinberg.de is their www site, I think there is a demo of
X<>Pose).

X<>Pose looks a lot like a MM Director app to me
- on an old Blender-CD rom there was once
a little demo doing nearly the same as X<>Pose & written in lingo...

regards
.g.a.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:56:38 +0000
From:    daniel crooks 
Subject: Re: QT, Realtime Graphics: in the other direction

David Crandalls idea of using max to control an Amiga has triggered an=20
old back-shelved idea of mine. Thanks David. Adobe Premiere has a stop=20
motion function that once initiated [with the "g" key] can grab frames=20
using the space bar [ascii ?]. At the risk of sounding like a complete=20
newbie, can Max send keyboard commands to other applications running in=20
the background ! If so, this could be a very nice solution. Any ideas,=20
sugestions on how to do this muchly appreciated.

daniel crooks
................ ...... .......  ....  . .... .  ..   ...   =20

d.tails

dcrooks@tce.rmit.edu.au
http://www.tce.rmit.edu.au/stamp/stamp.htm

@ RMIT          =09
phon: +61 03 9660 1915 / phax:  +61 03 9639 3412=09
c/o the Centre for design at RMIT
G.P.O Box 2476V, Melbourne 3001, Australia

@ d.lab=99
phon & phax: +61 03 9650 7474, for faxes please call first
18/238 Flinders Lane, Melbourne 3000, Australia

"12 percent of the US adult population admits to being physically=20
addicted to television"

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:16:38 +0100
From:    Jeffrey Burns 
Subject: video

Daniel Crooks wrote:

I'm currently working on a new media research
>project here in Melbourne. The basic guts of this project are two-fold.
>Firstly to construct some simple motion control devices onto which to
>stick little CCD cameras. Secondly to control the frame capture of said
>cameras. Basically computer-based timelapse/stopmotion but with a touch.

I think the right program for you is BigEye by STEIM. Tom Demeyer at STEIM
is really helpful and wrote this program for people who want to control
music by movement as detected by a video camera. It works best with a Mac
with a video input or a video board, although a Connectix Quickcam attached
to a serial port is supposed to work too. With enough RAM, it should be
able to talk with Max via IAC, although Demeyer prefers to use two
computers when using two programs.

David Crandall wrote:

>I'm also curious to see if a Max-controlled video capture solution could
>be found.

What's the advantage of piping video into Max? If you just want to record,
you can do it in Premiere? If you want to manipulate or evaluate video, you
will need another program anyway. Here, again, I think BigEye or Image/ine
by STEIM may be helpful.

Jeff Burns

http://www.inx.de/~jeff

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 06:32:42 -0500
From:    Ed Hartley 
Subject: splitting hairs

Nick Longo wrote:

> <Pose to play quicktime videos and picts via
MIDI
> <
> Hair?  I didn't even like that show in the 60's.  Broadway does San
Francisco
> rock.
>
> ------------------------------

Wow: aesthetic debate. We should have more of this

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:15:19 -0400
From:    Michael Sweet 
Subject: QT, Realtime Graphics: in the other direction

>So, I'm in control heaven, the only problem, I don't have the keys to=20
>the Video door. I have so far found a number of video ANALYSIS solutions=20
>including Eric Singers very promising videoIn object. But alas, nothing=20
>for the controlled CAPTURE and SAVING of input. The closest neighbours=20
>so far are a plugin for director, and some pretty amazing web-cam=20
>software.

Here's a non-technical approach that may not work.  Using apple events you
and the videoin object you could take snapshots (picts) of the screen using
command-shift-3.  Then you could set up an object to load in those screens
in sequence using the pict object.  Then use more apple events to delete
them from your hard disk when you're finished with them.  I know it's
clunky and will take up a lot of hd space but it may work.

--Michael Sweet

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:43:22 -0600
From:    Tommy DOG 
Subject: nGl!sh = 3R-d ln-gwAj

Dear Uncle Max,
Here's my two cents worth on this silly topic,

>If I don't have time,
>I ignore it.  If his post is a question, and he receives no answers, he'll
>steer his language closer to ours.  I'm not worried about it.

This is correct.  Having communicated with this being, I would like to
point out that under all this odd coded language is a person (?) who knows
quite a bit about this and related subjects.  Though it may get in the
short hairs of some people and make them well up with anger IT IS NOT A BIG
DEAL.  Personally, if it were me I would continue to make people uptight,
the reaction is priceless.
It is sad that we can't use the IRC or usenet in order to piss and moan
about topics that are of no real use to users as a whole.
Yeah, I just wasted space too.... What'cha gonna do?
TD

"Death To The Dumb, Curses Upon The Heads Of The Weird"
Tommy DOG, specialist & curator of noises and visual oddities
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/3976/uni.html

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:51:28 -0500
From:    Johnny DeKam 
Subject: Video Capture

Indeed, video capture would be useful in max.
I have done several performances using STEIM's Big Eye, which is
useful/similiar
to the video in object, in that it allows motion detection, and or image
recognition which produces
MIDI output, but alas, no frame capture.
My Agents project (in progress) uses extensive use of video capture in the
automated production of
artworks, and image analysis to produce sound (IE Metasynth).  I use
Quickkeys in combination with bundled
capture software to automate the capture process over time.  (Quickeys
allows you to macro/script ANY part of the OS or any application).
Your bots seem to be a very specialized use of max, and it makes sense that
Max wouldn't do frame capture, (as discussed, Max just hasn't been designed
from the start to work with graphics or video as much as it does
music/sound or device control)  Might a make these suggestions...

When in doubt use the OS - might you try using the MAC OS screen capture
utility with videoin to save your frame?  Lets see Command + Shift + F3
gets the whole screen -- Isn't there a keystroke for getting just the
foreground window?  (anyone know?)  If not, there must be a 3rd party cdev
or init which does the same thing.

Hardware Option:
National Instruments has designed a PCI card specifically for the purpose
of video in for a wide variety of scientific/industrial applications.  It
certainly includes everything you need to carry out your project. I believe
the software has built in time lapse, analysis, and an open architecture to
adapt the hardware for specialized purposes.

While were on the subject of National Instruments, they also sell a variety
of analog to digital PCI cards to get sensor data into the cpu - has anyone
used these boards, hacked them, used them in MAX?

Johnny DeKam
http://www.rpi.edu/~dekamj/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:02:34 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Equals signs problem (test3)

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.  Attempting to discover the problem.

Stephen Kay

(This text is wrapped at 72)
Testing text wrapped at 72. Testing text wrapped at 72. Testing text =

wrapped at 72. Testing text wrapped at 72. Testing text wrapped at 72. =

Testing text wrapped at 72. Testing text wrapped at 72. Testing text =

wrapped at 72. Testing text wrapped at 72. Testing text wrapped at 72. =

Testing text wrapped at 72. =

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:02:37 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Equals signs problem (test2)

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.  Attempting to discover the problem.

Stephen Kay

(This text is wrapped at 78)
Testing text wrapped at 78. Testing text wrapped at 78. Testing text wrap=
ped =

at 78. Testing text wrapped at 78. Testing text wrapped at 78. Testing te=
xt =

wrapped at 78. Testing text wrapped at 78. Testing text wrapped at 78. Te=
sting
text wrapped at 78. Testing text wrapped at 78. Testing text wrapped at 7=
8. =

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:02:43 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Equals signs problem (test1)

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.  Attempting to discover the problem.

Stephen Kay

(this text is reformattable)
Testing reformattable text. Testing reformattable text. Testing
reformattable text. Testing reformattable text. Testing reformattable tex=
t.
Testing reformattable text. Testing reformattable text. Testing
reformattable text. Testing reformattable text. Testing reformattable tex=
t.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:29:57 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: "=" problem (to the list)

You may have noticed I posted 3 different tests trying to discover what =

the problem is with my posts and the "=3D" sign.  All 3 of them were =

received by myself (through the list) without any "=3D" or wasted space. =
 =

I had assumed that the problem was being caused by the default setting =

for my messages which is "reformattable".  However, as I said, all 3 =

messages came through to me. (I do NOT use digest mode, BTW).

If anyone read those 3 tests, and has had a different experience, I =

would appreciate hearing about it (directly, not to the whole list =

please!)

Thanks, while I try to rectify the problem.

Stephen Kay=

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:31:22 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: Close menu not active for external wind

>David Z:
>Second, to Stephen: I sent you an example of an external
>object with the Close menu item enabled and working. What did
>you do to screw it up?

No need to be nasty!  I greatly appreciate the example, but guess what? =

Aside from the _bugs_ in it I already fixed and told you about, the =

Close menu item is _NOT_ enabled when you run it in 3.0.  I have, and =

use 3.5.x, but for reasons you already know and which I won't go into =

here, I still have to use 3.0 for some things. Is there a workaround?

Thanks,
Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:48:40 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: "=" problem take 2

OK, so I have been told that all of my tests produced messages with "=3D"=
 signs
all over them.  In this one here, I have purposely put a carriage return =
at
then end of every line.  Will someone please tell me if this is any bette=
r?
My own messages come back to me through the list without any artifacts. W=
hen
I send e-mail directly to other people on this list, no problem.  What gi=
ves?

Futhermore, I have not changed anything here.  This is the same program I=

have used to send e-mail messages to the group for the last 4 years, and =
it
seems that only recently has this problem started occuring.

Thanks while attempting to fix this,
Stephen Kay=

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 22 Nov 1997 06:18:00 +0900
From:    =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQGlMbiEhPSgwbBsoQg==?=

Subject: Re: QT, Realtime Graphics: in the other d

hello daniel, i want to buy your body. mail me.
ichi

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 22 Nov 1997 20:49:31 +0100
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Re: nGl!sh = 3R-d ln-gwAj

Enough already!

We just went through this on emusic-l.  Yes, the brilliantly obfuscating
Antiorp inhabits that list too.  Anyway, after a couple of weeks of hurling
missives back and forth (I got sucked in on that one -- Antiorp, I'm sure
you're having a chuckle at me right now!), people decided what they were
going to read and what they were not.

What we learned the most is that _nothing_ will stop Antiorp from doing his
"one-man performance art show" (the venerable Mike Metlay said that).
There are descriptions I could give, but I'd rather not in the presence of
the urbane and witty folks populating this list.

Regards, David

David Rodger,                       "Gee, I wonder if  Stockhausen has
Audio Engineer:                   ever met jazz artist/composer Sun Ra
Recording, Editing, Mastering            hails from Saturn? Maybe they
Aquatics:                                  could get and fix the Mir."
RLSS Lifeguard, Lifeguard Trainer           -- Elizabeth Hinkle-Turner
----------------------------------------------------------------------
NEW EMAIL: auricle@alphalink.com.au          (please use this address)
OLD EMAIL: musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au                     (nearly dead)
http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/d_rodger/         MOTION CAPTURE IN MUSIC

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:47:13 -0500
From:    Taylor Brady 
Subject: QTMA Atomic Editor

I've been playing around with the QTMA Atomic Editor discussed on this
list back at the start of the month. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get
my system to recognize the extension file the application creates --
it's there in the extensions folder, but doesn't show up in the
Extensions Manager, and its instruments aren't accessible to MAX through
the "qtmusic" object.

Since other folks seem to have left off posting about this, I assume
that either everyone else has given up in frustration, or that no one
else is having this problem, and is thus happily off creating new
instruments. If it's the latter, could one of these lucky people help me
figure out what I'm doing wrong? Is this an OS 8 problem?

Taylor Brady

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:03:14 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: "=" problem (take 3)

dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd70

Third and last try (I hope).  This e-mail has a manual carriage =

return at the 70th character, or earlier.  If anyone is still getting
funnylittle "=3D" or "=3D3D" things inside this message, please e-mail a
copyof the message to me.

Of course, if this does work, it's pretty annoying to have to eyeball
each line and put in a carriage return as you're typing - also makes
it difficult to insert a word or phrase somewhere.  Do other people
go through this?

Thanks,
Stephen Kay

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 20 Nov 1997 to 21 Nov 1997
**********************************************