Subject: MAX Digest - 13 Nov 1997 to 14 Nov 1997
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 00:00:13 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 11 messages totalling 343 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. moving memory in externals (2)
  2. Strange seq behaivior
  3. MAX Digest - 12 Nov 1997 to 13 Nov 1997 (2)
  4. moving memory
  5. call for new Max Audio tools
  6. wc
  7. strange seq behaviour
  8. QT Max alternatives
  9. Max and QT


Date:    Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:55:59 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: moving memory in externals

Jean Favory  writes:

>Today my question is: is it really impossible to use in externals
>objects mac traps wich move memory?

It's not impossible, but you shouldn't do it in a function that
can be called directly from a message sent to your object by
the user (such as your bang method). However, calling a trap
that moves memory in a qelem function is OK. Or, if you're writing
a user interface object, you can call any trap you like in a
click or update message. As a general rule, anything that you declare
with an argument type list of A_CANT, 0 will not be called at
interrupt level and it is safe to call traps that move memory there.
This is discussed on page 58 of the Writing Externals for Max
documentation (in the version that comes with 3.5).

David Z.


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 03:33:44 -0500
From:    Dan Jamele 
Subject: Re: Strange seq behaivior

In a message dated 11/13/97 11:38:29 PM, you wrote:


If you are using the seq object under the internal clock of Max, that is
problem.  Max's clock is about 1-2 seconds per minute off from real time,
while Visions clock is far more accurate.  The solution is to not import the
Midi Files, but rather play them from Vision into the seq object in real
via the IAC bus.  Once the seq object has recorded the data referenced to
internal clock, it is very repeatable for playback.  We have routinely run
10-15 minute sequences with a hard mouth sync for animatronic characters
way very successfully.

Dan Jamele
MediaMation Inc.


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:55:48 +0100
From:    Jeffrey Burns 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 12 Nov 1997 to 13 Nov 1997

Firstly, let me repeat my question from yesterday, since it got screwed up
as a result of my snobbish attempt to put an accent on "Miro":

>Does anyone know a way to make Max talk to a Miro DC-20 or DC-30 video

(to Tim Boykett:)
>Why doesn't your system work with full-screen video? My Miro records and
>plays video full screen (using its own compression) very well in
>conjunction with Premiere and a fast harddisc. I imagine it could work just
>as well with Max, with an appropriate external.
>Have you tried combining your various QT's to one film with strong
>compression and comparing the performance with and without your video

In addition, Isabelle Jenniches wrote:

>is this the only possibility you could get rid of the max window and
>display the movie in presentation mode? what about picts ? has anybody
>experience with Quickdraw and max?

I've experimented with "pict" and "pics" files as an alternative to QT, as
well as QuickDraw to create sprites. QT films can't be moved around the
screen at ease. However, they are more economical on memory. If you want to
show full-screen films, I would go for QT. If you want small pictures or
animations to fly around the screen, I would go for "pict" or "pics". (You
can convert QT films to the little-known "pics" format using DeBabelizer.)

Jeff Burns


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:34:29 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: moving memory

> Today my question is: is it really impossible to use in externals
> objects mac traps wich move memory? For instance, is it impossible to
> use the GetCursor routine because I would change the cursor appearance
> for a CURS resource of my own ?

You can use memory-moving calls in externals as long as you do them in
qelems and out of interrupt. It requires a little work but isn't
difficult. In you case, I don't think you'd want to be setting cursor
patterns at interrupt anyway.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects        music synthesis and control

        "...but you? You've got a monkey on your back: dedication."


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 11:29:34 +0100
From:    Andreas Weixler 
Subject: call for new Max Audio tools

Subject: call for new Max Audio tools

Dear Maxers,

is it possible for someone to write new objects for:
1. pitchtracking
2. Audio-delays
3. stereo audio input VU

I am very fond of SiLevel by Takahiko Suzuki, now I_d like to have
more. I was programming a lot on MAX/ISPW but Opcode Max and a
PowerBook is much more convienent for concerts (With low budget).
Delay would be a very basic Audio-Tool, like the Aiff-play now.

Pitchtracking could also be mangaged if SiLevel can be stereo, by
sending a signal through a highpass to channel one and through a
lowpass to channel 2. Comparing the levels gives You an idea about
the pitch, I think so. But as a matter of fact at the time we donnot
have a stereo input object, nor pitchtracking or audio-delay.
Any cat around ?

|   Andreas Weixler, composer, lecturer
|    IEM - Institute for Electronic Music
|    University of Music and dramatic Art Graz
|    Austria
|   e-mail:
|   SAMT - Studio for Advanced Music & Media Technology
|       Bruckner- conservatory Linz / Austria
|    e-mail:
|   member of the directors board of
|       GEM - the society for electroacoustic music, Austria


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 05:22:31 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: wc

wc = operable with ot _?


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 12:59:06 +0100
From:    Oeivind Idsoe 
Subject: Re: strange seq behaviour

> I have some problems with the seq object and importing midifiles
> that
> were created in Vision. The midifile, which includes playback of
> rythmical loops from a sampler, play just fine from inside Vision.
> When I import the file into Max, the timing seems to be slightly
> different, so that some of the loops are fired just a little bit too
> early (or too late).

Sorry I can't help, but I would really like an answer to this
question, too.

I haven't bought Max yet -- will probably order it next week -- and
I'm a bit disturbed to read about this timing-problem. I plan to use
Max a lot for manipulating MIDI-files, but I can't afford
mishaps/mis-firing like the one mentioned above.

Can anyone confirm/explain the observations of the initial post?

> Oeyvind Brandtsegg



Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 06:18:56 -0700
From:    Ken Rumery 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 12 Nov 1997 to 13 Nov 1997

Jon Witte wrote:

>Another question is what file format and should all the digests
>from each year be made into two long text files, one for 1994 and one
>for 1995.  Long text files would enable searching from within a word
>processor.  This would be a really  long text file, though.  Maybe a PDF
>format would be good?  Acrobat Reader has very good search


A public thank-you for archiving this list.   Tex-Edit and BBedit both
handle large text files.  Barebones also provides a freeware (lite)
version of BBedit.  Your idea of compressing past years in year-long
text file chunks seems fine in my view.  This might be a good first step.
Wait an see how much interest there is in past years before converting
material to .pdf.


Ken Rumery  Composition and Digital Arts
office:    (520) 523-3850
home page:
ponderosa project:


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 09:38:54 -0500
From:    Johnny DeKam 
Subject: QT Max alternatives

My experience with the movie object has been less than desireable in
several areas, and I've developed several alternatives to get full screen
solutions with control via max.

One problem of course is full screen playback performance.  How to squeeze
out full screen without expensive hardware, which one hopes is compatible
with max.

The "CloseView" control panel (part of Mac OS) allows you to zoom in any
part of a screen in software.  This allows you blow up a 320x240 QT window
to full screen without degrading playback performance.  Of course, you lose
resolution -- kind pixelated, but also kind of beautiful.

I've used external scan converters (for video output) which essentially
does the same thing, allowing you to zoom in on an area of the screen --
except on the NTSC/PAL side of the equation.

Both of these methods resolve the removal of title bars etc.

Another, more involved method is to pass MIDI messages to a more robust QT
application like Macromedia Director.  This requires a third party MIDI
extension to Director/Lingo such as HyperMIDI.  The Director environment
offers you alot more options for graphics control, and the major difference
in QT playback performance is that Director allows QT to play "Direct to
Screen" meaning that playback bypasses software and goes directly from disk
to screen.  (but you can still control it).

Of coarse nothing replaces a fast hard drive.

Would love to hear other alternatives, solutions out there.

Johnny DeKam
iEAR Studios - Rensselaer Polytechnic - Troy NY


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:46:26 -0400
From:    Michael Sweet 
Subject: Re: Max and QT

Isabelle Jenniches wrote:

>is this the only possibility you could get rid of the max window and
>display the movie in presentation mode? what about picts ? has anybody
>experience with Quickdraw and max?

I'm not sure whether you mean picts or pics but this may apply.

I had similar problems concerning speed and choosing between pics and
quicktime.  On a recent project we used a targa video card which shows a
much larger screen area on a second monitor and then you place your window
in the current video output area.

The problem with pics is that we could only render out of AfterEffects and
GraphicConverter movies that were shorter than 90 frames.  I'm not sure if
that is a limitation of pics or not.  We could have created more that one
pics movie and pasted them together using max, but that sounded like too
much work.

I couldn't tell which was faster between qt and pics running a 9600/300.
QT caches off of disk and keeps as many frames in max's memory as max will
allow.  Pics on the other hand must be in memory in order to play.  So on a
machine with a with a lot of memory the entire qt movie got cached into
memory anyhow.  And the speed differences were extremely close.  I didn't
use the Targa boards video compression features.

Hope some of this helps.

--Michael Sweet


Date:    Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:10:59 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: moving memory in externals

>Today my question is: is it really impossible to use in externals
>objects mac traps wich move memory? For instance, is it impossible to
>use the GetCursor routine because I would change the cursor appearance
>for a CURS resource of my own ?

Not "impossible", just the external will almost certainly crash in
overdrive if you move Mac memory indiscriminately.

For what you want to do you would use the defer mechanism to make sure
that _GetCursor is called at a "safe" time (that is, when the machine is
not in an interrupt handler). There are examples of how to do this in the
externals development documentation. If things are not clear, I can post
an example from the code of my Polygon object (which might force me to
get off my derriere and finish the documentation and make the external
available to anyone interested).

Hope this helps,


---------------- ----------------
Dr. Peter Castine           | Bullwinkle: You just leave that to my pal.   |             He's the brains of the outfit.
                            | General:    What does that make _you_?
                            | Bullwinkle: What else? An executive...


End of MAX Digest - 13 Nov 1997 to 14 Nov 1997