From:
                                                             8/22/97 8:52 PM
Subject: MAX Digest - 21 Aug 1997 to 22 Aug 1997 - Special
issueTo: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 15 messages totalling 511 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. MTR problems
  2. Time brackets (orig. Notes with max?)
  3. FPU ? (2)
  4. Notes with max?
  5. hot fats
  6. prob object
  7. Notes with Max
  8. Max & images (was: Notes with Max)
  9. the movies
 10. Sample-Cell & OMS problem
 11. MAX and a QuickTime VR
 12. FPU, whole notes
 13. pre-newbie question
 14. Trigger time lag Max to Vision, help please?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:28:47 -0400
From:    fletcher 
Subject: MTR problems

I'm using mtr for recording and playing back some performances.  I seem
to record 17 channels at about 20 messages per channel just fine.  The
data file looks good.

However, when I try to play back the data file I get strange errors.  A
couple of the channels don't play at all and several of the channels are
swapped.  Needless to say, this wreaks havoc with my performance.

The channels in question appear fine in the data file.  The issue doesn't
seem to be recording, but rather playing back a recorded data file.

I'm wondering if there are any outstanding issues with mtr and/or any
common traps and pitfalls I should know about.

Also, if there are any tools besides mtr which perform similar services I
would like to know about them.  (I've played with seq and fileout, but
neither seems to be quite what I want).

[fletcher]

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 11:18:18 +0100
From:    "Gregg Wagstaff, University of Dundee,
         Scotland." 
Subject: Time brackets (orig. Notes with max?)

Thorston wrote:

>I have written a piece in which a pianist(and stringquartett) should play
>chords in timebrackets, which means (like in the last numberpieces of
>John Cage) he has a period of time to begin and a period to end.
>Because I want the pianist a) not to know in advance what he should play
and
>b) not to look to a clock, to realize it with max.
>For I am more a composer than a programmer I did through the tutorial a
read
>the manual of MAX 3.0 , but I found nothing about whole notes.
>Does anyone know if it is possible?

Thorston, I think I understand your question (your mention of 'nothing
about whole notes' is a bit unclear, however). I'm familiar with Cage's
'Number Pieces' and have have considered using MAX along the same lines
as yourself. MAX certainly lends itself to chance and indeterminate
procedures.

I cannot really see how you can give your musicians the choice of when
to sound their note(s) -without- them refering to a clock of sorts. That
is unless you are refering to Cages 'fixed tiebrackets' where the
beggining and end of each note is determined,(for example 1'33" <>
2'02"), rather than unfixed where the beggining and end of each note may
occur within respective time brackets (eg. 3'32"<> 4'56" - 4'36"<>5'00").

If the first case IS so, then I would suggest you use the graphic
facilites of MAX: Using Photoshop (or similar) either scan in or draw your
score. Each bracket and its relative note/chord can then be made into a
separate PICT file and applied in MAX using the [PICT] object in a graphics
window. Your MAX program then only need to display these PICT files at their
particular times. No clock need be visible. You may have to split your
screen for your separate parts or maybe run more than one Mac (preferably
Powerbook), or use a data projector for all to see, if you don't mind
foregrounding you process that is :-)

I would consult the graphics section of the MAX manual and then find your
way of displaying the PICTs at a particular time from zero minutes and
seconds.
Look at objects such as [metro], [counter], [clock], [pack], [unpack],
[coll].

One could always then go on and use real-time chance I-Ching
derivation, rather than having pre-determined time brackets.

Let me know how you get on.

Best wishes,

Gregg Wagstaff.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:39:05 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: FPU ?

Oeyvind Brandtsegg asked:
>
>I've posted several questions to this list lately, and no one seems to
>care answering them... I hope I haven't offended anyone. I'll try to
>state this one very clear and straightforward: Does anyone know if Max
>crashing might have anything to do with the lack of a numeric
>coprossesor on some Mac models? If I've stated the question in an
>unprecise way, please let me know.

I haven't answered this question in the past because I don't know for sure.
But I doubt that presence/lack of an FPU should make much difference to
Max' stability.

It is possible to write an application so that it depends upon the presence
of an FPU. It is possible to write an application so that it doesn't depend
upon an FPU.

About the only person who would know for sure whether Max needs or doesn't
need an FPU is David Zicarelli. Miller Puckette (the original developer)
might hesitate a guess, but then whether or not it would be an accurate
guess is another question (a lot of code has been fed through the compiler
since Opcode took over devlopment of the MacOS version of Max). In any
case, David Z. has been programming Mac apps long enough to know how to
avoid dependencies on specific hardware configurations.

Cheers,

Peter

-------------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/
-------------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | 'Just the place for a Snark!' I have said it
twice
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de  |   That alone should encourage the crew.
                           | Just the place for a Snark! I have said it
thrice
Have Mac, Will Travel      |   What I tell you three times is true.'

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:39:12 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Notes with max?

Thorsten Olscha  asked:
>I have written a piece in which a pianist(and stringquartett) should play
>chords in
>timebrackets, which means (like in the last numberpieces of John Cage) he
has
>a period
>of time to begin and a period to end.
>Because I want the pianist a) not to know in advance what he should play
and
>b) not to
>look to a clock, to realize it with max.
>For I am more a composer than a programmer I did through the tutorial a
read
>the manual
>of MAX 3.0 , but I found nothing about whole notes.
>Does anyone know if it is possible?

Yes, it's possible, but it would be a lot of work. Possibly more than
you're prepared to invest. You would probably need to use a lot of
notehead-sized pict objects, a couple of rect objects, and a graphics
window.

You might possibly find using the OMS IAC bus with Max and an OMS-savvy
notation program (for instance, Finale or Overture) an alternative.

Cheers,

Peter

-------------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/
-------------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | 'Just the place for a Snark!' I have said it
twice
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de  |   That alone should encourage the crew.
                           | Just the place for a Snark! I have said it
thrice
Have Mac, Will Travel      |   What I tell you three times is true.'

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:07:58 +0200
From:    "Dr. K@rlheinz Essl" 
Subject: Re: hot fats

Ichi wrote:

> i have uploaded fat versions of usnd,ispeak,aiff,apd, including new
> external for speech recognition , to ircam ftp site.

Fantastic - I (and not only me) have been waiting for it since months!
Thank you!

Unfortunately, I could not locate your upload.

        ftp://ftp.ircam.fr/pub/incoming/max-patches/

is empty. Could you specify the exact location?

Cordially,

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 15:00:24 +0300
From:    Gil Wasserman 
Subject: Re: FPU ?

As far as I know, Max does its floating-point calculations internally, it
doesn't access the Mac's FPU unit, so I'd think your crashes are not caused
by a lack of a FPU processor.
Hope it gets better.

Gil

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 06:50:13 -0700
From:    Christopher Dobrian 
Subject: Re: prob object

Gil Wasserman  wrote:

>I have a question regarding the "prob" object. Does it save its
>transition-table when the patch is closed or can it read/write transition
>tables? - If not, can anyone suggest a way to do it (maybe via "coll")?

The message "embed 1" causes the contents of prob to be saved with the
patch when the patch is saved.

--Chris

                              ----------------
             Christopher Dobrian / School of the Arts - Music
             University of California / Irvine, CA 92697-2775
                Phone: (714) 824-7288 / Fax: (714) 824-4914
                      http://www.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 06:50:15 -0700
From:    Christopher Dobrian 
Subject: Notes with Max

Thorsten Olscha  wrote:

>Because I want the pianist a) not to know in advance what he should play
and
>b) not to
>look to a clock, to realize it with max....
>I found nothing about whole notes.
>Does anyone know if it is possible?

Max knows nothing about notation per se. But if you make pictures of each
notation excerpt, you can display them in a graphic window in Max with the
"pict" object. Or you can display them in a Patcher window with the "fpic"
object. Or you can put them in one big picture, and display different parts
of the picture with "offset" messages to fpic. (These fpic ideas might only
work in 3.5.)

You might also consider HyperCard, SuperCard, or Director for
easy-to-program sequences of images.

--Chris

                              ----------------
             Christopher Dobrian / School of the Arts - Music
             University of California / Irvine, CA 92697-2775
                Phone: (714) 824-7288 / Fax: (714) 824-4914
                      http://www.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:51:30 -0400
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: Max & images (was: Notes with Max)

On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Christopher Dobrian wrote:

> You might also consider HyperCard, SuperCard, or Director for
> easy-to-program sequences of images.

This begs the question of which, if any, of these programs is OMS-wise
enough to work with Max via IAC in real time.  Anybody tried this?

David Crandall
Graduate Student, Imaging and Digital Arts,
University of Maryland, Baltimore County

Sound Designer
Clean Cuts Music

dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:29:34 -0400
From:    Jeffrey Krieger 
Subject: Re: the movies

In a message dated 8/22/97 4:10:23 AM, you wrote:

<>
How do you put an imovie into a closed subpatcher?  My main concern at the
moment is how video seems to eat RAM in MAX.  When my patch reads 8 movie
files into the movie object upon opening, which have been saved in MOVIE
PLAYER under the 'normally allowing dependencies' option usually under 6k in
order to save disc space and hopefully RAM in MAX, and are started the RAM
allocated to MAX gets slowly drained.  No matter how much RAM I allocate to
MAX it seems to drain as the movies are played.  Unfortunately I only have
32
mgs of RAM and no computer science degree!

Jeffrey Krieger

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Aug 1997 03:25:47 -0400
From:    Johnny DeKam 
Subject: Sample-Cell & OMS problem

It sounds to me like you need a simple MAX patch that connects the

midiin object ------> midiout object

unlike MIDI manager/patchbay, OMS doesn't know anything about routing midi
information until you tell how within an OMS application (like MAX).

--JdK

>>From what I can ascertain, the Sample Cell device in OMS should just
>receive whatever comes in on the appropriate channel, w'o patch cords even
>being needed (can't draw them in in any case).
>
>I would like to just pass events coming in on MIDI channel 1 through the
>modem  port to the Sample Cell. Ideally, I'd like to do this with only OMS
>arbitrating the channel, though maybe I'll have to patch something through
>MAX. The events could be from a keyboard--so that my computer acts like a
>synth--or could be events from the I-CubeX box that I have now successfully
>programmed (the update from Infusion systems did the trick) in standalone
>mode to kick out note-on events (for example).
>

___J_o_h_n_n_y___D_e_K_a_m___________________________________________________

    Agents Processing Process and Other Wonders : http://www.rpi.edu/~dekamj

              integrated Electronic Arts @ Rensselaer : iEAR Studios
_____________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:49:09 -1000
From:    Rex Brian Coggins 
Subject: MAX and a QuickTime VR

What's the word on MAX and a QuickTime VR? Was this something I saw in a
dream or is this a reality (future reality, alternate realaty?!).

Ok Dave Z. (and all), what up?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------------
Rex Brian Coggins
Technical Exorcist
The Steakhouse Studio
5161 Cartwright Ave., Suite A
North Hollywood, California 91601-4075

(818)985-2620
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/8755/index.html
mailto:thesteakhouse@geocities.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:00:12 -0700
From:    peter elsea 
Subject: FPU, whole notes

> Oeyvind Brandtsegg  asks
> Does anyone know if Max
>crashing might have anything to do with the lack of a numeric
>coprossesor on some Mac models?

Max does not need an FPU, but it crashes a lot. The current version can
still bomb if a number box is rolled too energetically, and it will crash
on startup if file sharing and appleTalk are on.

Thorsten Olscha asks
>I have written a piece in which a pianist(and stringquartett) should play
>chords in
>timebrackets, which means (like in the last numberpieces of John Cage) he
>has a >period of time to begin and a period to end.
>Because I want the pianist a) not to know in advance what he should play
>and b) not to look to a clock, to realize it with max.
>For I am more a composer than a programmer I did through the tutorial a
>read the manual of MAX 3.0 , but I found nothing about whole notes.
>Does anyone know if it is possible?

We still don't have a notation object. (it's tougher than you might think,
because of the complexity of notation rules). You can show pieces of a
precomposed score. Here's how:

Use your favorite notation program to write the chords in question,
squeezing them horizontally as much as you can. Use the PICT capture
facility (or screenShot if  your notation program doesn't capture PICTs.)
to copy the image to a graphics program. Enlarge the image
as required, and save it as a PICT file.

In Max, place a graphic object with a name, and a pict object with that name
and the name of your PICT file. Open the graphic and bang the pict. You can
move your score in the graphic window by supplying a number to the middle or
right outlet of pict followed by a bang in the left. Do this with a metro
and counter and the score will scroll slowly by.

The elegant way to use this in a concert would be to have a Mac with two
monitors, and give the performer a screen with only the graphic window on
it.

Peter Elsea
Director of Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 19:37:53 -0400
From:    "Marcos R. Sawosky" 
Subject: pre-newbie question

hello...
I am an Opcode user, and was looking for a program that would help my
composition with some weirdness... I had been looking into Symbolic Composer
4.0 & Sseyo's Koan, and asked some musicians that are into this stuff (
Forrest Fang, Robert Rich & Lustmord) and they told me to look into Max,
they
said it was fun, and also told me to beware, that Max wasn't as simple as
Opcode makes it out to be...that I would need some background in
programming,
my question to the list is to what extent is this true?
my other question is where is a good place to purchase Max?
for customer service & price.
Thanks for any help!
Sincerely

Marcos R.Sawosky
Meleril@aol.com

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 22 Aug 1997 21:52:22 -0000
From:    Jeremy Roberts 
Subject: Trigger time lag Max to Vision, help please?

I poste this to the list on 16 August and no response... maybe it didn't
send? All advise is appreciated!

Thanks,

JR

**********************************

Help please????

I need to trigger a vision midikey from Max. Simple, yes?... I made the
following patch:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 40 89 440 432;
#P comment 141 306 104 196617 port r is my IAC bus;
#P message 85 250 50 196617 2;
#P message 85 215 35 196617 set \$1;
#P number 85 187 35 9 0 127 259 3;
#P newex 85 275 85 196617 makenote 127 50;
#P newex 85 303 49 196617 noteout r;
#P comment 138 188 226 196617 this is the midi note number of the "next
event";
#P newex 24 213 49 196617 stripnote;
#P newex 24 131 43 196617 notein a;
#P comment 80 134 113 196617 port a is my keyboard;
#P comment 18 40 364 196617 this patch is supposed to take any incoming
note-on and trigger a midikey in vision via the IAC bus... the "midi note
number of the next event" will be a variable to be determined. Why is
there a lag from the time of the note-on to the trigger in vision? If I
use a dedicated midikey in vision \, the trigger is almost instant. Is
there a way to make this patch work faster? Of course \, overdrive was
on. Thanks \, Jeremy Roberts ;
#P connect 6 0 5 0;
#P fasten 6 1 5 1 165 296 109 296;
#P connect 3 0 9 0;
#P connect 7 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 6 0;
#P connect 2 0 3 0;
#P connect 2 1 3 1;
#P pop;

My problem is that the trigger time lags... that is, from when I press
the controller keyboard to when the midikey in vision fires, there's an
unacceptable delay. Is there a way to speed this up? Of course, overdrive
was on. I'm running on a 8100/100. If I simply use MIDIkeys, the
sequences fire almost instantly. My desire is to use a very small
keyboard as a "next event" trigger... Max would determine the next event,
cue it up for the conductor and wait for the "go"... Of course, if I map
120 discrete midi notes to MIDIkeys it will work just fine, but this way
is way cooler... can anyone help me speed this up, or are we asking for
the CPU to think and that just takes time???? But how much time? Can I
make this code tighter?

Thanks!

Jeremy

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 21 Aug 1997 to 22 Aug 1997 - Special issue
**************************************************************