From:
                                                             8/9/97 11:02 PM
Subject: MAX Digest - 8 Aug 1997 to 9 Aug
1997To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 7 messages totalling 244 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. subpatchers (2)
  2. Help! (Please?) (2)
  3. How to have a menu object switch bet. 1 of 2 item lists???
  4. ... from problem to patcher?
  5. max to vision - trigger sequences?

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Date:    Sat, 9 Aug 1997 05:26:08 EDT
From:    Roland Hemming <100414.2220@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: subpatchers

Just my penniworth,

A 'make subpatcher' command sounds quite nice. However making the subpatcher
is
not the issue as when you make a sub patcher you have to label all your
inlets
to you know what it does. A 'make sub patcher' command couldn't do that as
it
doesn't know what your labels should be.

On this point a really nice thing MAX 3.5 does is when you are in a
subpatcher
you can point over an inlet or outlet and it will show the label you have
written just like it does when you are outside it. This saves so much time.
Thanks David!

Roland

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:55:48 +0000
From:    Tod Fiste 
Subject: Help! (Please?)

Maxers,

Does anyone know if it is possible to get the source code for external
Max objects other than the ones used as examples in the developer's
section of the CD-ROM?  I'm most interested in the DIAL object and the
LIB and related objects, which I would like to try to write some
variations for.

(This is the third time I've posted this in the last few weeks with no
resonse.  Is this because no one knows, or because my posts are not
getting through, or because I've unknowingly caused offense with the
question...?)

Thanks,

Tod Fiste
S.F., CA
TodFiste@ix.netcom.com
Tod.Fiste@pbdir.com (work)

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:34:09 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: subpatchers

>A 'make subpatcher' command sounds quite nice. However making the
subpatcher is
>not the issue as when you make a sub patcher you have to label all your
inlets
>to you know what it does. A 'make sub patcher' command couldn't do that =
as
it
>doesn't know what your labels should be.
>Roland

I'll add my vote that a moake subpatcher command would be a neat thingy;
however, in response to the above issues, when issuing such command it
would be easy enough to label the inlets and outlets with a label based o=
n
the object to which it would be connected.  Say you had a group of object=
s
including (from left-to-right)  an int, a menu, another int, a numbox;
assuming that other objects were attached to all 4 objects left inlets an=
d
left outlets, "make subpatcher" could create a subpatcher with these labe=
ls
(or something like it):

Inlets:
1: int (1) inlet 1
2: menu inlet 1
3: int (2) inlet 1
4: numbox

Outlets:
1: int (1)
2: menu outlet 1
3: int (2)
4: numbox

This would be instantly workable; you could always go back and rename the=
m
later if you wanted more explicit things.

I also thought the colored patch cord idea to be a good and useful one ;-=
)

Stephen Kay

------- The MegaMAX Application Developer's Collection --------
Full color 3D UI Objects for creating professional looking apps,
     Macintosh Interface objects, and other Max helpers.
-----------check out the demo on the MAX 3.5 CD----------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:34:02 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: How to have a menu object switch bet. 1 of 2 item lists???

>>Or was it buggy (bpatcher) in 2.5.2 and stable in 3.0? I forget.

>The latter, I hope, since I'm planning to stick with 3.0 for the
>forseeable future.

The bpatcher was buggy in 2.5.2 and stable in 3.0.  I use it extensively =
in
3.0 without any problems.

Stephen Kay

------- The MegaMAX Application Developer's Collection --------
Full color 3D UI Objects for creating professional looking apps,
     Macintosh Interface objects, and other Max helpers.
-----------check out the demo on the MAX 3.5 CD----------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:34:14 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Help! (Please?)

>Does anyone know if it is possible to get the source code for external
>Max objects other than the ones used as examples in the developer's
>section of the CD-ROM?  I'm most interested in the DIAL object and the
>LIB and related objects, which I would like to try to write some
>variations for.

There is no repository of source code for MAX anywhere that I know of. Yo=
u
could try asking David Z. directly.  Sometimes he's been known to give it=

out.  On the other hand, I know for a fact that he does not give out sour=
ce
code to objects which live in the Max kernel, of which I believe lib and
related objects belong to, since they are written in a different (and
perhaps proprietary) format.

Stephen Kay

------- The MegaMAX Application Developer's Collection --------
Full color 3D UI Objects for creating professional looking apps,
     Macintosh Interface objects, and other Max helpers.
-----------check out the demo on the MAX 3.5 CD----------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:11:44 +0100
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: ... from problem to patcher?

 >Meanwhile, I'm writing a tutorial
>for my class on high level design issues, and would appreciate your
>comments on the question "How do I get from problem to patcher?"

Comments from a former student of Peter Elsea's....

In light of the recent discussions, maybe the question should be restated
"How do I get from problem to subpatcher to patcher then get rid of the
problems?"
Answering this question is difficult, becuase what I would preach is not
what I always practice.  Ideally, the problem needs to first be translated
from clouds of electrons in the brain to terse rigid boxes in Max.  I like
to start with pencil and paper and restate the problem in a Max-like flow
chart.  When I first started using Max, I knew little of the vocabulary
such as "metro" "bang" "makenote" "noteout" or "OMS,"  but I was in tune
enough with the aesthetic such that I could draw a flow chart of "black
boxes" that could be broken down into a patcher by perusing the Reference
Manual and, in particular, the "Object Thesaurus." (Oh, how I wish
Macromedia's Director had one of those!)
In doing this, the issues of priority and order of operation become
frighteningly clear.  The flow of data and where things need to be stored
and retrieved, and what one "black box" needs from another can then be
broken down and the search for appropriate objects begins.  Pencil and a
stack of paper from the recycling bin a great way to do this, because the
paper doesn't freeze on you if you make the wrong connections (unless you
are waiting for the El in Chicago in December)!
Mapping out the various input, output, and expected "reactions" of Max is
useful as well.   Thinking "well, I want to have a woman with a spiky
mohawk with a tuxedo jacket mixed with fetish-club attire play keyboard and
have the computer respond by playing different videos and play different
samples based on what she plays"  is suitable cloud that can be translated
to Max by realizing that, to begin, the unusually dressed player must be
generalized into "MIDI input," the videos can be generalized into
"Quicktime movies" or "Laserdisc", the samples can be considered "Aiff
format" or "MIDI triggered sampler."  Now that the media "assets" have been
managed, the problem of "what she plays" must be appropriately stated.
Will she play from a score or will she be stomping on the keyboard with the
currently hip punk-rock shoes?  What aspects of music will I need to cope
with?  Rhythm, harmony, note density, pitch distribution?  All of these can
be broken down in *some* way with Max, the question is which ones, and to
what depth.  Finally, the interpretations of these "objects of musicality"
must be made.  Will the computer put out a lot of notes when the player
does?  Will it be be silent?  Etc.  All of these decisions must be made in
a way that can be broken down into boxes and arrows, and the more
generalized each box is, the more useful it will be in future projects.

So, there's my comments, Peter.  I hope it is evident that I learned
something in your lab!!!  (If it's not, go to
http://128.97.119.66
click on the "songs" button and take a look at my internet "album" in
progress).

Peter.

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@ucla.edu
http://128.97.119.66
home of Slambassador multimedia gallery
"I ain't lying one pound"

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:08:48 -0400
From:    Jeremy Roberts 
Subject: max to vision - trigger sequences?

I'd like to have a bang from Max trigger a designated sequence in Vision,
just as if a MIDIKey were pressed. I can't seem to figure this one out. I
get loops and crashes, etc...

Is there an easy way?

The patcher will determine the next event.... I want to send this midi
note # to vision and trigger the appropriate MIDiKey.

Help! :-)

Thanks...

Jeremy

p.s. I'd also like to trigger a QuicKey from Max... i could have max
trigger a MIDIKey which is simply a QuicKey (I've used MIDIKeys to
trigger QK sequences in the past)... or is this the very long way around?

All advise is appreciated.

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End of MAX Digest - 8 Aug 1997 to 9 Aug 1997
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