From:
                                                             8/7/97 11:00 PM
Subject: MAX Digest - 6 Aug 1997 to 7 Aug
1997To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 8 messages totalling 276 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Subject: OS 8
  2. Sub-patches-well worth the effort (2)
  3. ____HELP: How to have a menu object switch bet. 1 of 2 item lists???
  4. OS 8
  5. Disk Authorizations and OS 8
  6. How to have a menu object switch bet. 1 of 2 item lists??? (2)

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Date:    Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:52:36 -0800
From:    Richard Zvonar 
Subject: Subject: OS 8

On Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:13:00 -0400  Bob Gluck  wrote:

>t--apparently the disk
>protection application (let's hear it again for disk protection!) used for
>the Max Key Disks doesn't work in OS 8.0 for some computers.

Seems OK on my PowerMac 8500/180

______________________________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD                              zvonar@LCSaudio.com
(818) 760-8055 voice/fax

                          http://www.well.com/~zvonar

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:04:52 +1000
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: Sub-patches-well worth the effort

>Tom Ritchford wrote:
>
>>The problem with subpatches is that it's decidedly non-trivial to take
>>a working patch and divide it into subpatchers.

>Peter Castine wrote,

>But definitely worth the effort.
>
>And the effort is, in my experience, not undue, particularly if you think
>in terms of structured programming from the start.

I agree.  The advantages are many.  You can search for bugs in smaller
areas, you can see what the different parts of the patch are doing more
easilly and that helps in refining and simplifying the programme, and best
of all you can save the sub-patches and create a library of then to use in
other patches - which saves me heaps of time.

So,  well worth the effort.

Cheers,

Garth

>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<
Garth Paine
Composer, Sound Designer,
Museums, Dance, Film, Theatre
Interactive Immersive Environments
61 3 95259844 (W)
Fax 61 3 95275549
<<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:48:03 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: ____HELP: How to have a menu object switch bet. 1 of 2 item
lists???

>4. Is there some way to break up menu obj#2
>   into 2 separate menu objects, each pre-loaded
>   with their indiv. 100-long item lists, and then
>   have Max only display one of the menus depending
>   on what's selected in menu obj#1?

>   This would be best (I think!) because of faster
>   display time (avoiding having to set the menu with
>   each switch).

>   For this 'switch' method to work, the two menu
>   objects #2a & #2b would need to overlap so as
>   to appear in the same location in the patcher
>   at run time.

To do this, you could use a bpatcher.  Put the two pre-loaded menus insid=
e
it; then use the "offset" command to a thispatcher inside the bpatcher to=

change the positioning of the bpatcher.  i.e. make the bpatcher just larg=
e
enough to display the first menu; then use shift-command (I think? anyway=
,
check the manual for the correct key combination) and the mouse to move t=
he
positioning of the bpatcher until the 2nd menu is displayed insted of the=

first one.  Note the offset being displayed in the lower left bottom
(assistance string) of the window.  Check the bpatcher help file for an
example.

Stephen Kay
------- The MegaMAX Application Developer's Collection --------
Full color 3D UI Objects for creating professional looking apps,
     Macintosh Interface objects, and other Max helpers.
-----------check out the demo on the MAX 3.5 CD----------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:03:49 -0400
From:    Bob Gluck 
Subject: Re: OS 8

<>

Obviously I meant copy protection. Oops.

Bob Gluck

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:11:17 EDT
From:    Tom Ritchford 
Subject: Re: Sub-patches-well worth the effort

Garth Paine  wrote:
>
>>Tom Ritchford wrote:
>>
>>>The problem with subpatches is that it's decidedly non-trivial to take
>>>a working patch and divide it into subpatchers.
>
>>Peter Castine wrote,
>
>>But definitely worth the effort.
>>
>>And the effort is, in my experience, not undue, particularly if you think
>>in terms of structured programming from the start.
>
>
>I agree.  The advantages are many.  You can search for bugs in smaller
>areas, you can see what the different parts of the patch are doing more
>easilly and that helps in refining and simplifying the programme, and best
>of all you can save the sub-patches and create a library of then to use in
>other patches - which saves me heaps of time.
>
>So,  well worth the effort.

I never argued that it wasn't worth the effort... it's just that the
effort is excessive.

In general, all programs tend to grow, particularly when someone other
than the programmer is setting the specifications.

The fact is that in a procedural language, abstracting a section of
code into a subroutine takes me perhaps 5 minutes if I'm lazy.

In Max, it takes 20 minutes.  There's a serious debugging phase needed
as it's pretty easy to make a misconnection;  you need to create and
connect a new object (an inlet or outlet) for each object's inlet that
was previous connected to the "outside world."

And this is all mousing, which I find rather tiring... particularly
when I'm developing on my Powerbook!

This is all part and parcel of the quadratic explosion problem
that Max is prone to.  I ain't complaining... it comes with the
territory... but this isn't the most enjoyable part of Max programming.
It's always a drag when something that is conceptually trivial takes
time and perhaps debugging to actually implement.

Whine, whine, whine...

    /t

Tom Ritchford                        tom@mvision.com

    Verge's "Little Idiot" -- Music for the mentally peculiar.
1-800-WEIRDOS                       http://www.weirdos.com/verge

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:42:38 -0700
From:    James Livingston 
Subject: Disk Authorizations and OS 8

A temporary workaround for this problem would be to authorize the disk
under an older version of the system software and then install OS8.  For
those who have already made the leap to OS8 that would mean going back to
an older version of the system software; authorizing the disk, reinstalling
OS8 and then running MAX.  For those who are considering upgrading to OS8,
you should make sure that the hard disk from which you intend to run MAX is
authorized BEFORE you install OS8.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:14:27 -0700
From:    Christopher Dobrian 
Subject: Re: How to have a menu object switch bet. 1 of 2 item lists???

ai wrote:

>I'm trying to figure out the most efficient way
>in Max to code up the following:
>
>1. I have a 6 item menu object.  Depending on which
>   of the 6 items the user selects, I want a 2nd
>   menu object to display one of two lists of
>  text items
>
>2. the 2nd menu object needs to display one of two
>   pre-defined lists of 100 text items
>
>3. so, for example, if the user selects item #1 in
>   the 6-long menu obj#1, I want Max to somehow
>   load list #1 of 100 text items into menu obj#2
>   for display.  If the user selects item#2  in
>   the 6-long menu obj#1, I want Max to instead
>   load list #2 of 100 text items into menu obj#2
>   for display.
>
>4. Is there some way to break up menu obj#2
>   into 2 separate menu objects, each pre-loaded
>   with their indiv. 100-long item lists, and then
>   have Max only display one of the menus depending
>   on what's selected in menu obj#1?
>
>   This would be best (I think!) because of faster
>   display time (avoiding having to set the menu with
>   each switch).
>
>   For this 'switch' method to work, the two menu
>   objects #2a & #2b would need to overlap so as
>   to appear in the same location in the patcher
>   at run time.

The best way to implement method #4, I think, is to have both copies of
menu #2 in a bpatcher subpatch, with the bpatcher sized appropriately so as
to display only one of them in the main patch, and then change the offset
of the bpatcher (by sending an "offset" message to a thispatcher object in
the subpatch) to show the desired menu #2, depending on which item is
selected in menu #1.

For details, see p. 126 of Max Reference, and p. 217 of Getting Started
with Max.

N.B. I think I recall that bpatcher was quite buggy in 3.0 but pretty
stable in 3.5. Or was it buggy in 2.5.2 and stable in 3.0? I forget.

--Chris

                              ----------------
             Christopher Dobrian / School of the Arts - Music
             University of California / Irvine, CA 92697-2775
                Phone: (714) 824-7288 / Fax: (714) 824-4914
                      http://www.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:53:31 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: How to have a menu object switch bet. 1 of 2 item lists???

> N.B. I think I recall that bpatcher was quite buggy in 3.0 but pretty
> stable in 3.5. Or was it buggy in 2.5.2 and stable in 3.0? I forget.

The latter, I hope, since I'm planning to stick with 3.0 for the
forseeable future.

--
         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again

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End of MAX Digest - 6 Aug 1997 to 7 Aug 1997
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