From:
                                                            7/30/97 11:55 AM
Subject: MAX Digest - 29 Jul 1997 to 30 Jul 1997 - Special
issueTo: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 17 messages totalling 515 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. miscellaneous etc. (2)
  2. OS 8.0 (4)
  3. timetools, thiswindow, etc.
  4. solved mysteries
  5. Float calculations
  6. help in Max68K
  7. TCIN object??
  8. MAX Digest - 28 Jul 1997 to 29 Jul 1997 (2)
  9. Telnet for PowerPC?
 10. Show programming
 11. pipedreams
 12. freeobject message in max window

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:43:41 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: miscellaneous etc.

A couple of problems with the sort message to coll were found:

1. If you sort on a data field that's a symbol, the sort is
in the reverse order from what it should be. Sorting symbols
with "sort -1" puts them in descending order.

2. If you are sorting data elements of different sizes, the
data may be truncated to the size of the smallest element.

Both of these problems will be fixed in a coll to be included
with a forthcoming update to Max 3.5.

I also fixed a bug last night that's been in the program since
it was first released. Here's how to make it happen:

1. Place three objects (I use toggle boxes) in a row vertically.

2. Connect the middle one to the lower one.

3. Now drag a patch cord from the outlet of the upper one
down well below the lower one so that it covers the
patch cord you just connected in step 2. As you drag the
patch cord back and forth over the connected one, you can
make the connected patch cord disappear.

Trippy.

Finally, a question. Does anyone use the undocumented "reson"
messages to the LCD object?

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:11:47 -0800
From:    Richard Zvonar 
Subject: Re: OS 8.0

 OnTue, 29 Jul 1997 16:23:19 -0400  Bob Gluck 

>...one of the features [of MacOS 8.0] is some level of
>multi-tasking...
>...no idea whether multi-tasking
>means that an application (such as Max) will continue running while you
>scroll down a menu, or bring another application to the foreground.

It seems to work pretty well, as long as:

        1) Overdrive is ON

        2) "Run MIDI in background" is enabled in the OMS MIDI Setup

I was able to run a Max sequencer playing QuickTime instruments while
opening and closing various applications including Deck II and Peak and
could play digital audio from disk with either of these applications.
However, Deck DID affect the level of Sound Manager playback.  It was even
possible to run both Peak (looping) and SuperCollider concurrently with
Max, although SuperCollider needs to be the frontmost application and
wouldn't allow me to interact with Max.

______________________________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD                              zvonar@LCSaudio.com
(818) 760-8055 voice/fax                         71501.3342@compuserve.com

                          http://www.well.com/~zvonar

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:17:28 -0700
From:    Steve Ellison 
Subject: Re: timetools, thiswindow, etc.

These objects will be available fat (and free!) in the near future.  David
Z's helped port them and I am testing them now.

Stay tuned...

_____________________________________________________
Steve Ellison                ellison@LCSaudio.com
Level Control Systems        http://www.LCSaudio.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:33:44 -0700
From:    Issac Roth 
Subject: Re: OS 8.0

I was going to ask this same question, so let's pose it again:

 Is anyone using Max 3.5.x with MacOS 8?
 Success? Anything different with Max?

I really like the stuff in system 8, but I'm weary to load it on my Max
machine when things work just fine now under 7.6.1.

> I saw a blurb about the new Mac operating system upgrade, 8.0,  in one of
the
> wholesale catalogs. Listed as one of the features is some level of
> multi-tasking.

The "multi-tasking" that comes with MacOS 8 is just a multi-threaded version
of the Finder. In other words, you can do many things in the Finder at once,
but nothing is changed about how other applications work, or work with each
other. MacOS 8 doesn't change how applications share the processor, how
scheduling is done, etc. MacOS 8 remains a cooperative multi-tasking
environment, as MacOS has been ever since the advent of MultiFinder in
system
6.

> Wondering what, if any, implications this might have for we
> max'ers, I called Apple Tech Support. They told me that one could copy
files
> and do other things simultaneously. They had no idea whether multi-tasking
> means that an application (such as Max) will continue running while you
> scroll down a menu, or bring another application to the foreground.

The thing most people are excited about is being able to copy files in the
finder while doing something else. Your support person was obviously not
very
clueful.  I doubt that Max would continue running while you were holding
down
the mouse button in another application. We probably won't see that until
Rhapsody brings a pre-emtive kernel. And then we'll have real issues with
Max
trying to build Real Time Applications, etc.

(While I'm rambling about this, one of the nice things about NeXTSTep in its
current incarnations is that it has this "hog-the-machine" mode that you can
invoke if you're the root user, which doesn't allow your application to be
pre-empted by any other process. I'm hoping Apple/NeXT will keep this in
Rhapsody as it would be a wonderful - and dangerous - thing to have with
Max.
Dangerous because it really lets you hog the processor, which means
neglecting the processes that service the network, disk drives, etc. So you
can shoot yourself in the foot easily by allowing buffers to overflow in
other processes. A better thing to have would be some ability to tell the
Rhapsody scheduler "make me the top priority".)

> The
> system pause in these cases naturally drive me nuts. Have any of you tried
OS
> 8.0 running Max yet? Does anyone have any ideas about what Apple's
definition
> of multi-tasking means?

Some good technical MacOS 8 info is at
http://devworld.apple.com/MacOS8/MacOS8/MacOS8.html

Issac

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:48:03 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: solved mysteries

freeobject: bad object:

Max does a consistency check on an object before it frees it.
This message indicates that the check failed. It could imply a lot of
things, but it typically means that memory is corrupt. It should
probably just say "* error: You're gonna crash!" If you have a
patcher that can consistently produce this message, I will be happy
to look at it if you send it to me in an e-mail message. "Consistently"
in this case means that if it doesn't happen the first time I try it,
I won't give it a second thought.

tcin:

I abandoned the development of this object because I realized it
wasn't really going to work as an internal MIDI object. It's still
in 3.0 (and maybe 3.5) but I recommend using midiin -> xtimein instead.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:53:14 +0200
From:    Oeyvind Brandtsegg 
Subject: Float calculations

Thanks for the help on send and receive. Of course there's more trouble:
I have tried using an expr object with 2 floats as inputs. Works fine,
then I change one of the float inputs by dragging on a connected number
box. Very often when I do this, the Max app. closes all windows
including the max window, then freeze. One time out of ten I get a
message: "Floating-point co-processor not installed"
Does this mean that I can't change the float-inputs of expr in
real-time, or is this supposed to work fine.

I am using Max 3.5 on a Powerbook 540c 20MB ram, System 7.5.1 freshly
re-installed.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:20:02 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: OS 8.0

Bob Gluck  asked:
>I saw a blurb about the new Mac operating system upgrade, 8.0,  in one of
the
>wholesale catalogs. Listed as one of the features is some level of
>multi-tasking. Wondering what, if any, implications this might have for we
>max'ers, I called Apple Tech Support. They told me that one could copy
files
>and do other things simultaneously. They had no idea whether multi-tasking
>means that an application (such as Max) will continue running while you
>scroll down a menu, or bring another application to the foreground. The
>system pause in these cases naturally drive me nuts. Have any of you tried
OS
>8.0 running Max yet? Does anyone have any ideas about what Apple's
definition
>of multi-tasking means?

First of all, to Bob: Have you tried turning Overdrive on in Max? It beats
going nuts. (Overdrive is explained in the friendly Max manual.)

To the other questions:

As most people have noticed, the multitasking that has been with us since
since the introduction of MultiFinder in System 6.something has been
cooperative multitasking (CM). For better or worse, zillions of people have
been telling Apple since then that the one, true (TM) form of multitasking
is preemptive (as seen, for instance, in Unix).

Apple had planned to introduce Preemptive Multitasking (PM) in System 8
when it was still code-named `Copland'. (And, BTW, there is no `e' in
Copland, but there are a lot of programmers on the 'net who can't spell to
save their lives... strange, when you consider how particular C compilers
are about spelling, but that's another story.).

Anyway, Copland was going to support a mixture of PM and CM: basically, all
activity at the level of using Mac Toolbox calls to QuickDraw and the like
was to remain cooperative (so that applications written for System 7 or
earlier wouldn't immediately break), but that System 8-savvy programs could
do their background processing taking advantage of PM.

The System 8.0 introduced this month by Apple is, however, not everything
Copland was originally planned to be. PM and protected memory are still
music of the future (TTBOMK). Multitasking remains cooperative.

However, the Finder is now multi-*threaded*. That means that the
application (and Finder is really just another application) can split its
attention around several tasks at the same time. So, you can start a couple
of copies, then move windows around, do a Get Info, and open a document,
all at the same time. It basically makes Copy Doubler & Co. superfluous.

I think those of us who care about timing issues are just as happy not to
have to deal with PM. I've been told that it *is* possible to get reliable
and tight timing on PM systems, but it also seems to be something of a
black art.

Cheers,

Peter

-------------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/
-------------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | 'Just the place for a Snark!' I have said it
twice
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de  |   That alone should encourage the crew.
                           | Just the place for a Snark! I have said it
thrice
Have Mac, Will Travel      |   What I tell you three times is true.'

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:24:19 +0200
From:    Dominique David 
Subject: Re: help in Max68K

> Does anybody succeed in opening a helpfile with < H> in Max68k?
> I always have to open it in the Finder's helpmenu.
> The FATversion works fine.

I did not and therefore had to change my good old reflex when I need help,
since
working with the last MAX version. But pressing the "HELP" key on the Mac
keyboard does the job. It sounds like an acceptable solution, at least to
me.

Dominique David
dominique.david@cea.fr

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:59:07 -0400
From:    John Lamar 
Subject: Re: TCIN object??

>
> The tcin object is indeed in Max itself, the same as midiin
> or abs or table
>  or...
> The difference is that tcin is not documented in the manual,
> only in the
>  helpfile!
> I can't remember where I got that tcin.help patch but it's
> on my HD.
> I post it below.
>

Thanks Roby!

> >Short of this, what else are people using to do timecode in
> Max 3.5 on
> >PowerPC?
>
> It depends on what you want to do, there is timein and timeout.
> As for xtimein which is part of Steve Ellision's TimeTools,
> it doesn't exist in
>  a FAT version.

Well a student here is trying to lock Max to a ADAT via time code into a
studio 4.

While timein in gets its time from MIDI manager or the OMS timer,  tts not
clear to me that the OMS timer is driven by timecode coming into the studio
4.
When I get chance I was going to test this. But if someone knows for sure
that
would help me.

John Lamar
Computer Systems Coordinator
Music Technology Division
Berklee College of Music
617-747-2484
jlamar@berklee.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:07:21 -0400
From:    "Andy K." 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 28 Jul 1997 to 29 Jul 1997

Re: OS 8.0

The new OS is multitasking/multithreaded, but like anything else it is
still limited to the software used with it.  From what I have read this
mostly concerns finder tasks, such as copying, emptying the trash, moving
files.  However, it depends on the app. if it can work in conjunction with
this.  Some app. like to grab the CPU and not let go, causing pauses,
Netscape for example.  Truthfully OS 8 just started shipping, so it will
be a while before most of us can work with it.  However there are other
advantages to Max users.  It's completely PPC native, so it runs faster,
the newest version of quicktime shipping with it is also better, apple has
also addressed a lot of stability problems.  From what little time I've
had it running, I've found it a great upgrade from the mac of the past.
Although they recomend it for systems back to 040 machines, it can be a
bit sluggish on non-PPC machines.

Andy Kuritzky

*******************************************************************
*Andrew Kuritzky              *  kuritzky@stetson.edu             *
*Stetson University, #5986    *  http://www.stetson.edu/~kuritzky *
*421 N. Woodland Blvd.        *                                   *
*Deland, FL 32720             *  (904)738-6704                    *
*******************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:08:31 +0500
From:    KANEKO Yuuki 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 28 Jul 1997 to 29 Jul 1997

ok
--
KANEKO Yuuki

e-mail address : f2128358@nv.aif.or.jp

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:12:30 -0400
From:    pseudo 
Subject: Re: OS 8.0

>I saw a blurb about the new Mac operating system upgrade, 8.0,  in one of
the
>wholesale catalogs. Listed as one of the features is some level of
>multi-tasking. Wondering what, if any, implications this might have for we
>max'ers, I called Apple Tech Support. They told me that one could copy
files
>and do other things simultaneously. They had no idea whether multi-tasking
>means that an application (such as Max) will continue running while you
>scroll down a menu, or bring another application to the foreground. The
>system pause in these cases naturally drive me nuts. Have any of you tried
OS
>8.0 running Max yet? Does anyone have any ideas about what Apple's
definition
>of multi-tasking means?

MacOS 8 adds multi-threading to the Finder so you can do multiple copy
operations at once and so that Folder Sizes and other information will
update in the background.

MacOS 8 does not change Apple's mult-tasking model.  The Mac uses
cooperative multitasking.  Applications periodically yeild control to the
System which then polls the other running Applications to see if they
want any time.  On Application startup most Applications never yeild
control until they are finished initializing so all other Applications
appear to pause.

So, no, MacOS 8 does not provide any new benefits for MAX.  On the other
hand, I've been running MAX 3.5.x and OMS with MacOS 8 for about a week
and I haven't noticed any incompatibilities yet.  Installing the new
System didn't even void the copy protection!

[fletcher]

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:11:49 -0400
From:    John Lamar 
Subject: Re: miscellaneous etc.

> 3. Now drag a patch cord from the outlet of the upper one
> down well below the lower one so that it covers the
> patch cord you just connected in step 2. As you drag the
> patch cord back and forth over the connected one, you can
> make the connected patch cord disappear.
>
Wow you can make it reappear too by continued back and forth dragging!!!
Its magic!!!

As long as you are fixing patch cords in Max, David....

Is there any chance of getting colored patch cords in Max?
Think of all the trippy sting art designs you could do in patcher windows!!

Seriously it would really make it easier to see what is going on in complex
patchers if you could color code patch cords.

John Lamar
Computer Systems Coordinator
Music Technology Division
Berklee College of Music
617-747-2484
jlamar@berklee.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:32:46 +0300
From:    Dimitris Daskopoulos 
Subject: Telnet for PowerPC?

True, the Telnet object is in the older Max3.0 disks.
But it does not run on a PowerMac with Max3.5.4.

Does anyone know of a networking (TCP/IP) capable object?

Dimitris Daskopoulos

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:49:41 -0500
From:    Timothy Manning 
Subject: Show programming

We are building a museum presentation system that will play a sequence
of controlling MIDI controllable stage lights and an audio track,
hopefully played from the computer's hard drive.  We hope to train
one of the museum staff to program shows  Are there show programming
environments written in Max that would allow a non-programmer to
program a show?

Also, anyone know of a good multi-port serial card for Power Macs?  I
was using a NuBus Greensprings card that worked well, but lost track
of the company.  An Internet search yielded much information about
herbs.
Tim Manning
College Station, TX

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:52:45 +0200
From:    dudas 
Subject: pipedreams

Dear Max users,

I just got news from another ear-scam (ircam) worker out doing a musical
production in Salzburg that he's been having problems using the "pipe"
object.  As far as I could understand, the pipe bug is as follows (using
Max 3.5.4):

"pipe appears to work correctly in the main patch.
if pipe is in an abstraction, the delay time in the right inlet cannot be
changed.
once you copy the contents of the abstraction into a new patch, it works
correctly again."

I just tried it out and had NO PROBLEMS whatsoever, but it would be nice to
know if anyone else out there has experienced similar problems, because
this seems to be causing them some trouble.

Has anyone out there had a pipe problem?

-R

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:54:44 -0500
From:    "M. Abidh Waugh" 
Subject: freeobject message in max window

A word of thanks goes out to N. Longo for his response to my previous
problem with max freezing up and giving me freeobject messages.  The
upsetting thing about these lockups, is that often times the whole
operating system freezes and I have to press the kill button/power off  in
order to restart.  Perhaps I need to find a less complex way of doing what
it is that I am doing (juggling melodic information between a series of
colls).    Is there  any sense of agreement amongst other max users that
the coll object, while being extremely versatile, also requires more
proccessor attention than other objects?  Also, any other authoratative
answers to the meaning of the freeobject message would be greatly
appreciated.

May Max be kind to you all.

M. Abidh Waugh

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 29 Jul 1997 to 30 Jul 1997 - Special issue
**************************************************************