From:
                                                            6/17/97 11:00 PM
Subject: MAX Digest - 16 Jun 1997 to 17 Jun
1997To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 11 messages totalling 346 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. OMS, MIDI and things
  2. not really about max....but....
  3. more about da-88 and vision, really
  4. 2 identical CD's-OUCH !!
  5. OMS, MIDI and life as we know it
  6. truncation (4)
  7. Hiding the mouse pointer
  8. Freemidi OMS emulator

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:58:28 +0930
From:    Peter Mcilwain 
Subject: OMS, MIDI and things

Look my basic point was not specifically to do with FreeMIDI or Max or
OMS. The crux of the issue is that increasingly I'm experiencing that
standardistion is breaking down. I realise that there are financial
limitations on companies like Apple re providing services to a small
market but what I was driving at is that one way or another the issue
needs to be addressed.

In my opinion Max users, who tend to range widly in their use of MIDI
application a one of the best placed groups to have this discussion. Could
we suggest that there is a standard which should be followed - if it is to
be OMS then fine. These issues go a lot wide that just this - I'm seeing
the same things happening with digital audio.

I was I guess wondering if others felt the same way.

Peter McIlwain
PATU
University of Adelaide
pmcilwai@arts.adelaide.edu.au

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:47:57 -0400
From:    Garry Schafer 
Subject: not really about max....but....

Not really about Max (although it's around waiting....)...I'm using Studio
Vision 3.5 with an Opcode Studio 3 connected to a da-88........the da is
connected to the printer ports on the studio 3, both in and out to the
sy-77 midi card within the da-88....I've done this for a number of years,
but for some reason, the da is not working properly with vision...I'm
pretty sure it's one of them stupid mistakes, but I'm getting very
frustrated....I can't record tracks or playback tracks on the da with
vision running the sequence....I have a smpte offset, and proply entered
into the sequence.....the da starts with a preroll of 5 secs fine, and
continues on, but vision does NOT start the sequence...it just sits there
blinking its play eye, teasing me.....any ideas?  Any special settings on
the 9 dipswitches on the back of the da-88?

I'm nearly 30 and I'm ready to cry....of course, being nearly 30 and so
great either......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 04:54:43 -0400
From:    Garry Schafer 
Subject: more about da-88 and vision, really

Not really about Max (although it's around waiting....)...I'm using Studio
Vision 3.5 with an Opcode Studio 3 connected to a da-88........the da is
connected to the printer ports on the studio 3, both in and out to the
sy-77 midi card within the da-88....I've done this for a number of years,
but for some reason, the da is not working properly with vision...I'm
pretty sure it's one of them stupid mistakes, but I'm getting very
frustrated....I can't record tracks or playback tracks on the da with
vision running the sequence....I have a smpte offset, and proply entered
into the sequence.....the da starts with a preroll of 5 secs fine, and
continues on, but vision does NOT start the sequence...it just sits there
blinking its play eye, teasing me.....q

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:10:00 +1000
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: 2 identical CD's-OUCH !!

Richard Dudas wrote:
>On a more cheerful note, I just thought I'd warn anybody trying to play two
>identical CDs using two CD ROM drives on the same Mac.  The Mac doesn't
>like it very much.

I too have had the pleaseure of discovering this, having had 6 CD's pressed
for an installation that ran 6 CD-ROM drives controlling interactive audio.
After numerous phone discussions I realised that there was an embeded
serial code on each CD and that serial code is read by the driver software
to identify the CD.  Hence you cant have 2 identical serial codes maounted
at the same time because it thinks that the one CD is in both drives -
brain hemerage !!!!!

Good fun !!!!!

Garth

>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<
Garth Paine
Composer, Sound Designer,
Museums, Dance, Film, Theatre
Interactive Immersive Environments
61 3 95259844 (W)

<<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:08:07 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: OMS, MIDI and life as we know it

>Perhaps the Max users should collectively push for some standards in MIDI
>driver software or ultimately urge Apple to create a driver standard which
>third party developers have to adhear to.
>
>What do you recon?

Well, Apple _had_ created a MIDI driver which was a standard for quite a
while (and to which many 3rd party developers adhered, I reckon). Is it now
a sign of old age when someone remembers the Midi Manager?

Alas, shortly after Apple released the Midi Manager (and, around the same
time, a simple MIDI interface), they were sued by Apple Corp. (which, for
you young'uns, was the company founded by the Beatles) over trademark
infringement. I'm not inclined to go into the details right now, but the
upshot was that Apple Inc. (the company founded by the two Steves) had to
go to court and say ``No, m'lord, we don't manufacture music equipment.''
Not inducive to putting a lot of R&D effort into maintaining Midi Manager
(or any of Apple's other music-related work). This has been exacerbated by
Apple's continuing efforts to convince the business world that Macintosh is
a serious business machine (for those who have not had much to do with big
business, let me assure you that MIDI is not a big selling point with
enterprise customers).

In short, Midi Manager, which was developed by two dedicated and
enthusiastic engineer/musicians (who are both no longer at Apple), has been
essentially orphaned. The original MM code was written to a large extent in
68k assembler, so it's not as if moving it to PowerMac is trivial. Apple
announced quite a while back that it felt OMS was a great replacement for
Midi Manager.

So, I don't reckon Apple is likely to take any initiatives in the
foreseeable future to offer their own MIDI driver.

Cheers,

Peter

------------------ http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ------------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | Q: What do the IBM PC, Atari ST, NeXT, Amiga,
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de  |    Windows 2.0, and Windows 3.0 have in common?
                           | A: They were all hailed as Apple-killers.
                           | (They have something else in common, but it
                           | escapes me right now...)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:21:58 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: truncation

To Ciaran Maher's query about truncation, Stephen Kay suggested:
>1) metro will, of course, truncate any float to an integer.

At the risk of repeating the obvious: The fact that metro truncates floats
to an integer is clearly documented. It really is in the friendly manual.
And, for better or worse, it has been the standard way of converting
floating point to integer values in computer programming for at least the
last 30 years.

>   Therefore,
>11.7 will become 11 ms, 13.9 will become 13, etc.  If you want to "round"
>floats, you could use an "if" first, with the expression "if ($f1 - $i2)
>=2E5 then $i2 else out2 $i2".  Run the float into both inlets; run the 2n
>outlet through a "+1" and you've got conventional rounding.

The above will work, although an easier solution would be to pass the float
through a "+ 0.5" box before it goes into metro. This will give you
rounding. Think about it.

Cheers,

Peter

------------------ http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ------------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | Q: What do the IBM PC, Atari ST, NeXT, Amiga,
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de  |    Windows 2.0, and Windows 3.0 have in common?
                           | A: They were all hailed as Apple-killers.
                           | (They have something else in common, but it
                           | escapes me right now...)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:00:57 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: truncation

>>Stephen Kay:
>>   Therefore,
>>11.7 will become 11 ms, 13.9 will become 13, etc.  If you want to "roun=
d"
>>floats, you could use an "if" first, with the expression "if ($f1 - $i2=
)
>> > 0.5 then $i2 else out2 $i2".  Run the float into both inlets; run th=
e
2nd
>>outlet through a "+1" and you've got conventional rounding.

>Peter Castine:
>The above will work, although an easier solution would be to pass the
float
>through a "+ 0.5" box before it goes into metro. This will give you
>rounding. Think about it.

How true!  But my method comes recommended by Rube Goldberg :-)

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:27:15 +0200
From:    Joerg Spix 
Subject: Re: truncation

Hi friends,

>Date:    Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:01:46 +0000
>From:    Ciaran Maher 
>Subject: truncation
>
>Hi again. Can nobody help with my truncation? Has no-one ever come up
>against it? I'm desparate. Please help. Maybe I could clarify the q a
>little?
>
>This was the way I put it last time:
>
>I'm running a loop which resets the 'metro' speed on each bang to the
>result of and 'expr'. My problem is that the 'expr' result is a 'f ' which
>is truncated by 'metro' to miliseconds even when the decimal 5 or greater.

The problem is truncation as you pointed out.
You can accumulate the frational part of your float and add the integer
part of the accumulation to the delta time send to the metro (and indeed
remove the integer part from the accumulation then). The metro wouldn't
bang completly regular (this is not possible in MAX when you want frational
milliseconds), but there will be the smallest local deviation possible and
the total time is still correct. (As correct as MAX works, due to heavy
computation etc.)
If anyone of you have used Formula or perhaps other FORTH-based music
software, this might sound familiar...

Joerg

>At least I hope that's what my problem is. The alternative seems to be that
>I'm asking too much of  the prog to make the calculations in real time, and
>that'll mean I'll have to make lists/arrays ...

No, I don't think so.

(Joerg.Spix@informatik.uni-oldenburg.de)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:35:15 EDT
From:    "(no name)" 
Subject: Re: truncation

Joerg Spix 
>>Date:    Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:01:46 +0000
>>From:    Ciaran Maher 
>>Subject: truncation
>>
>>Hi again. Can nobody help with my truncation? Has no-one ever come up
>>against it? I'm desparate. Please help. Maybe I could clarify the q a
>>little?
>>
>>This was the way I put it last time:
>>
>>I'm running a loop which resets the 'metro' speed on each bang to the
>>result of and 'expr'. My problem is that the 'expr' result is a 'f ' which
>>is truncated by 'metro' to miliseconds even when the decimal 5 or greater.
>
>The problem is truncation as you pointed out.
>You can accumulate the frational part of your float and add the integer
>part of the accumulation to the delta time send to the metro (and indeed
>remove the integer part from the accumulation then). The metro wouldn't
>bang completly regular (this is not possible in MAX when you want frational
>milliseconds), but there will be the smallest local deviation possible and
>the total time is still correct. (As correct as MAX works, due to heavy
>computation etc.)

Hey, I like that... you accumulate the error from round-off and then
insert a "leap millisecond" when you need it.

Like you say, you can't do any better than that!

    /t

Tom Ritchford                        tom@mvision.com

    Verge's "Little Idiot" -- Music for the mentally peculiar.
1-800-WEIRDOS                       http://www.weirdos.com/verge

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:14:26 +0200
From:    "Dr. K@rlheinz Essl" 
Subject: Hiding the mouse pointer

Is there a way to hide the mouse pointer in MAX?

Cheers,

Dr. K@rlheinz Essl
SAMT - Studio for Advanced Music & Media Technology
Bruckner-Konservatorium Linz / Austria
www:   http://www.ping.at/users/essl/index.html

________________________________________________________________________
     Visit the MindShipMind - an interactive multimedial Web Oracle
          http://www.ping.at/users/essl/works/mindshipmind.html
________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:27:11 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Freemidi OMS emulator

jmw/cmu  writes:

>PS - I heard that David Z. (who is now a certifiable part of history due
>to his mention in the book "Electric Sound" by Joel Chadabe) is working
>on an OMS compatible version of "M" - the late 80's sequencer. Is that
>true David?

Yes, I am just finishing it, and it will be available soon but
only in a Japanese version distributed by a company called Eyes. Co. Ltd.
(http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~eyes). I haven't decided how to make OMS-M
available outside of Japan yet.

While we're on the subject of shameless plugs, I should mention
that CodeWarrior is having a blowout for academia. You can get the
previous version of their program, which is what I use, for
$19.95. For more info check http://www.metrowerks.com

David Z.

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End of MAX Digest - 16 Jun 1997 to 17 Jun 1997
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