4/25/97 11:00 PM
Subject: MAX Digest - 24 Apr 1997 to 25 Apr
1997To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 12 messages totalling 404 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. on going back to go forward
  2. Going back to move forward... (2)
  3. Problem creating ext'l Max objects
  4. the 603ev (PowerBook) processor, was: Re: 68K vs. PPC
  5. MAX Digest - 23 Apr 1997
  6. PB520c and MAX3.5.1
  7. in defense of money-grubbing capitalists
  8. MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997 to 23 Apr 1997 (2)
  9. Multiple Computers Hookup
 10. Serial Ports for ANY Mac


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:40:24 +0000
From:    Tod Fiste 
Subject: Re: on going back to go forward

Tom Ritchford wrote:
> Max is by far the best supported program that I use.  In comparison,
> I have reported many dozens of repeatable, obvious feature
> deficiencies in Vision with no response from the manufacturer...
> these include really nasty bugs like being (easily) able to create
> a file that crashes Vision when you try to open it... (just put
> a subsequence inside a subsequence inside a subsequence inside
> a subsequence and boom!)
> But you can't expect miracles from David, even if he wasn't
> supporting this list "for free."

This has bothered me ever since I got an inkling of the situation, which
seems to be that David Z. supports Max for little more than the dubious
satisfaction of supporting all us cretins, while Opcode makes money off
a product that they support only as far as distributing it.  I mean,
trying to get Max support from Opcode's tech support line is a joke -
they just refer you to this list.  (That's assuming you can get through
to somebody at their support desk - which I hardly ever can.)  Maybe Max
represents an insignificant percentage of Opcode's income, I don't
know.  But I wish someone could come up with a way to make them at least
do the right thing and give David Z. appropriate compensation for what
he does for them (via what he does for us).


P.S.: When I compare Opcode's support line to Mark of the Unicorn's, it
doesn't even show up on the screen.  This is spite of the fact that
Opcode is 30 miles away from me vs. MotU which is 3 time zones distant!
Because of my experiences with Opcode and Max support I would never
consider switching from Performer/Unisyn to Vision/Galaxy.


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:44:45 -0400
From:    Ted Henderson 
Subject: Re: Going back to move forward...

Hi Maxers,

I'd like to stand up for David Z. and the incredible work he has done with
the Max app. I've been using it since 2.5 and credit this software and
Lewis (not in that order) with helping me complete my (sorta remarkable)
master's degree.

I now work for a music software company that just released its first
 We have about 10 staffers and 6 programmers scattered around the country
have put in "super-human" efforts to put a stable, useful, intuitive package
out the door. It is important to know that everyone is drawing a salary
during the development phase. It's a shame more end-users don't have insight
into the time and money spent to develop their software tools.

Ted Henderson


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:02:40 -0500
From:    Keith Kothman 
Subject: Re: Going back to move forward...

I'd like to add my own 2 cents on this issue.

I've never seen another instance where the author of music
software for a major music company has personally responded
to questions about their product.  The fact that David Z. doesn't
get paid for support is all the more astonishing.

Rost's comments about "making a buck" aren't just offensive, their
extremely misguided.  Miller Puckette and David Z. have entirely
different employment situations.  David Z. gets paid to write
commercially-released software.  Miller gets paid to teach
and conduct research.  For this purpose he has a support staff
that far outnumbers David Z., as Rost should well know since
he is part of that staff.  Understand that this is not a knock
on either one, but MIller doesn't have to depend on the income
from Max or any other product to pay his bills.   This is more
evident when you compare the stability of the the pre-Opcode
release of Max to what is available now.  Granted, neither is
bulletproof, but it has come a long way.

As far as support and service to composers, I rarely see Miller
on this list answering questions.  David Z. does that.  As far as
providing me tools as a composer, David Z. wins hands down.
I can get the software that he develops.  Miller is still working
on a version of Max that by all accounts is extraordinary.  Trouble
is, no one outside of UCSD can use it, as Miller doesn't have the
right to distribute it.  And before anyone trashes the business
aspect, Miller knew before hand that he wouldn't be able to distribute

I'm not trashing Miller here.  I'm dissapointed that I had left
UCSD before he got there, and that I never had the chance to work
with him.  I just think that it's silly for people at UCSD to put
up this God vs. Satan struggle.

Keith Kothman

Keith Kothman                
Department of Theory & Composition
University of Miami School of Music                305.284.4338
                                              fax: 305.284.4448


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:20:00 PDT
From:    "Webb, Derek [IES]" 
Subject: Problem creating ext'l Max objects


Could you please help?

I initially requested help from Macintosh Max Support, but they suggested
that you, Max ListServe, were probably the best people to help in this case.

My Name is Derek Webb.

I live in the UK, and am assisting lecturers at Barnsley college of art, in
the use of 'C' programming. One of the packages they are using is Opcode Max
on PowerMac computers, which they have found to be a very useful tool,
however they now wish to go further, and write their own external objects or
To do this we required a 'C' compiler, we have Metrowerks Codewarrior, but
not Think C.

Unfortunately most of the documentation supplied by Opcode, relates to
 Think C (ref appendix A of the Max manual), and in particular  to a file
needed called  MacTraps  and its conversion from an application, to a

If compilation of source code for MAX using Code Warrior is possible, I
would be most grateful if you could instruct me on how it is done, if not, I
would be grateful if you could provide me with details on how to go about
creating External Max objects using 'C', and if necessary confirm that I can
only achieve this using Think C.

               Yours Gratefully.

                    D. Webb.


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:02:16 +0100
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: the 603ev (PowerBook) processor, was: Re: 68K vs. PPC

>David (or anyone for that matter), what's your feeling:  68k Max on a 520
>faster or slower than PPC Max on a 100mhz 603?

As I've said before, I'm not too bothered about raw speed (I mean, I've
always found my PowerBook 100 fast enough for my purposes - go figure) but
the accuracy of the timing functions.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:10:30 -0700
From:    Steve Anderson 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 23 Apr 1997

        Reply to:   RE>MAX Digest - 23 Apr 1997 to 24 Apr 1997

>David Zicarelli  wrote:
>>First, let me just say that the implications of the last paragraph of
>>Patrick's message represent one of the most offensive things I've ever
>> read on this mailing list.

Dear David,
Patrick's sentiment is not shared by myself or any MAX user I know, quite
opposite. I recognize and appreciate a labor of love when I see it and feel
gratitude for your committment to provide ongoing uncompensated support
through email. This shows someone who truly follows through on principle.
knowing this is so doesn't provide much feedback, so I felt this should be
said implicitly,... thank you.
Steve Anderson, Equip. Tech. III            "time is all we really have"
Physics & Astronomy Dept.                    (707) 664-2330
CSU Sonoma State                      


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:15:17 +0900
From:    Shinji Moriwaki 
Subject: PB520c and MAX3.5.1

I installed MAX3.5.1 in my PB520c. I made a collective file from old patch (
3.0 patch) with MaxFAT3.5.1. but some error messages in Max window told me ,
when I dropped it on MaxPlayFAT3.5.1.

as follows;
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "coll"
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "flush"
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "clocker"
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "iter"
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "urn"
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "Uzi"
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "date"
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "tempo"

And the collective file didn't play.
Why? No message told me when I made collective with Max3.0.
and I didn't write those augments in objects on the patch.
I reinstalled MAX3.5 and 3.5.1 some times. I made a collective file some
But message told me...

 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "coll"
 $B!& (J warning: #N: extra arguments for message "flush"
...etc., etc.

I hate error message.
yesterday, I reinstalled MAX3.0 sadly .

my system;
        (25Mhz 68LC040/12MB Ram/240MB HDD)
        MacOS7.6 (Japanese, minimum extensions), and OMS2.3.1(E)
        Korg X5 (Tone Generator)


Shinji Moriwaki


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:23:32 -0500
From:    Fred Collopy 
Subject: in defense of money-grubbing capitalists

I am probably the only person on this list who's primary academic
appointment is in a *business school*, so I would like to say just a word
in support of a little money grubbing. If people who did the kind of
creative work that David does made a little more of it, there might be a
good deal more music in the world. I hate upgrades. I always enter into
them reluctantly. I have now been through three with Max, and must say that
they have been among the least painful (compare the move from 3.0 to 3.5
with the recent WordPerfect debacle for a current example). Further, and
more to the point, each is rewarded with some absolutely delightful
compensation that more than makes up for the stresses. David keeps
refining, enhancing, pushing. I for one am grateful.

Now, that I have made nice I'll ask for the next push...could we have more
control of the file operations used by such objects as mtr and presets? It
would be nice to be able to give them file names directly and circumvent
the standard file open and file write dialogues at times. Would any others
benefit from such a thing, I wonder? In general, the  interface is getting
dangerously close to becoming something that one could deliver to the most
discriminating naive "end users". Then you will really start to hear HOWLS,

Fred Collopy
Weatherhead School of Management
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland, Ohio 44106
(216)368-2144 voice
(216)368-4776 fax


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:24:34 EDT
From:    Otto 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997 to 23 Apr 1997

Hello, Bert!  Just drag the right lower corner with the mouse and re-size -
 graphic window will be the same when you re-open. This info buried
somewhere i
n the MAX manual- had a problem there myself   Regards, OttoHenry

Otto W Henry, Prof Music Technology
Center for Music Technology
School of Music, East Carolina University
Greenville, N.C 27858 (919) 328 1246


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:15:29 -0400
From:    Dan Jamele 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997 to 23 Apr 1997

Subject: Videodisc mastering

Apologies for those who see this twice...

I need to have a video laserdisc "check disk" made ASAP, in the next
couple of weeks for a video installation I've just been invited to do.
This is *different* from the "alpha disc" option which costs ~$700; the
check disc is a non-archival, single-copy, reference laserdisc and is
supposed to be much cheaper.

Who can recommend a good place, preferably in the mid-Atlantic region (I'm
in Baltimore) that can do this quickly and as cheaply as possible?

Thanx in advance,
David Crandall
University of Maryland, Baltimore County>>

I have a fair amount of expereince making Laser Disks.  You've been slightly

In the USA, the only 2 places that I have found that make press laser disks
is Pioneer in Long Beach CA., and Scotch 3M somewhere in the Midwest.  There
might be someplace on the East Coast.  When you are pressing laser disks
(about $2000.00 prep and $15/disk after that), they will make you a check
disk before the final mastering and pressing process.  You can't just go and
have a check disk made unless you have some very good friends at the plant.

The One Off glass or plastic disks that run $300-$700 are the only quick one
off method I have ever found.  They are not the same quality as a check disk
or pressed disk for that matter either, nor do they last as long.

If you find out otherwise, let me know.  This is just based on my experience
and not extensive research into all manufacturers.  We have been doing this
for about 6 years though so.......

Dan Jamele


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:15:35 -0400
From:    Dan Jamele 
Subject: Re: Multiple Computers Hookup

Subject: Connecting two max sessions>>


We have many times connected multiple Macs using the olod fashioned
interfaces such as MOTU's MTPII and having one Mac on the regular port and
another on the Net port.  OMS or FreeMidi with OMS emulator allows you to
have total access between the two computers as simply external Midi devices.
 Steve Ellisons Max-Midi-Sysex object (can't remember the name offhand) can
send whatever messages you want via a sysex between the two machines.

Dan Jamele


Date:    Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:15:48 -0400
From:    Dan Jamele 
Subject: Re: Serial Ports for ANY Mac

My company MediaMation makes an external, 2 port Midi controled serial card
that transmits RS232.  It even has custom messages for certain laser disk
players triggered with simple Note On commands.

The RS232 card is a small (about 3.5"X5") board.  It has Midi In, Midi Thru,
and 2 discreet RS232 ports.  It is compatible with any Midi device or
software that can transmit System Exclusive messages.  MAX is excellent.
 Multiple cards can be daisy chained together with different ID numbers.  It
can send messages at 2400, 4800, and 9600 baud rate.  Each RS232 port can be
set to a different baud rate.  It comes with a MAX patcher for setting it

Price is $249.00 with Power Supply.
Add $40.00 for plastic enclosure.
MediaMation Inc.
310-320-0696 Phone
310-320-0699 Fax email  very bad web page


End of MAX Digest - 24 Apr 1997 to 25 Apr 1997