From:
                                                            4/23/97 11:00 PM
Subject: MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997 to 23 Apr
1997To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 15 messages totalling 467 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997 (2)
  2. Redirection and audio
  3. Click Slowly!
  4. atom_buf text
  5. Which is better: bangbang 1 or button?
  6. PCI Serial Port Cards & Mac to Mac = MIDI communication
  7. 68K vs. PPC (2)
  8. Connecting two max sessions
  9. Videodisc mastering
 10. MAX Digest - 16 Apr 1997 to 17 Apr 1997
 11. 800 numbers (Was: Product advice)
 12. timeline bugs
 13. Academic Max

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Date:    Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:42:49 -0600
From:    Micheal Allen Thompson 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997

DSP MAX on PPC is from the same source base as the SGI... atleast thats what
I
 learned at ICMC '96.
DSP MAX is running on PPC MAC's at IRCAM... see the ICMC '96 proceddings....
I'm sure with the apple changes, DSP MAX will run nicely on the OpenStep OS
 also...

Linux runs nicely on PPC also... Why buy a Machine with an intel chip and do
 without MAX when Linux
and MAX and Be and OpenStep(soon) already run on the better PPC hardware ?

> Date:    Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:50:20 -0700
> From:    Charles Baker 
> Subject: Re: 68K vs. PPC
>
> Hmmmm.....
> I guess I must be a true dinosaur, then:
> I ran on a MacPlus (4Meg) until Max3.0,
> when I inherited a very cheap MacII (snicker)
> I am not up to Max3.5, obviously.
> I was not gonna go for a PPC machine: I would
> prefer to buy a Linux box next. But I would hate
> to loose Max. Any thoughts on Max-DSP on these
> fast machines, David? Or does IRCAM and/or Miller
> own too much of that to include in the commercial
> product? I would be extremely happy witha Max/DSP
> implementation that was not fully "real-time" on some
> processors... I have faith there will be faster
>  processors in the future.
>
>
> Just some thoughts...
> CharlieB
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:41:57 +0100
From:    "K-) Peter" 
Subject: Redirection and audio

        1) Is there anyway to redirect the MIDI output of max to another
running sequencer on the same Mac - i.e. from Max to Cubase, such as via
OMS or MROS or will they share/look at any common point ?
        2) Also will Opcode Max ever support the digital audio objects
and processing of Ircam Max on the Mac (presumably this is PPC only) ?
        3) Is there a way to change the look (as in shading, colour,
size) of the knob or H/V slider objects, such as in Res edit and would
it be safe ?

K-)
Peetr

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:13:41 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Click Slowly!

I've been alerted to a problem with Max 3.5 running on 68K
machines. You may remember a few months ago I was congratulating
myself for having addressed Roland Hemming's complaint that
if you see the infamous OMS "Forget Port/Reset Port" dialog
while scrolling a number box, you can't see the cursor and
can't click on the button you want. To add insult to injury,
the wrong button is the default and if you press return,
you'll see another dialog a short while later. Well it turns
out that this "fix" has a bad side-effect: if you click on
a number box (or other object that has the fix implemented)
in rapid succession on a 68K machine, Max 3.5 will hang.

So I'm taking the fix out of the next update, and instead I'm
going to push Opcode to release a version of OMS that makes
sure the cursor is visible before putting up its stupid
dialog boxes.

I believe that if you refrain from drinking too much coffee
before using Max you can probably avoid this problem.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:24:23 +0200
From:    "David K. Mason" 
Subject: atom_buf text

Hi!
What does=20
check failed:  atom_buf text
mean?

Best regards, Dave Mason
music@tempo.s.shuttle.de
http:/www.s.shuttle.de/tempo/

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:24:23 +0200
From:    "David K. Mason" 
Subject: Which is better: bangbang 1 or button?

When generating a bang within a hidden routine,
which of the following is faster and/or takes up less internal programming
s=
pace:
bangbang 1, or
button?

Best regards, Dave Mason
music@tempo.s.shuttle.de
http:/www.s.shuttle.de/tempo/

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:00:58 +0200
From:    Pavel Smetana 
Subject: Re: PCI Serial Port Cards & Mac to Mac = MIDI communication

> > I have a feeling this was recently discussed here, but I was temporarily
> > unsubcribed and lost the info. Does anyone know of any serial cards for
> > PCI based macs? Is anyone using one? I'm hard at work modifying an
> > installation that needs to control 2 Laserdisc players, 1 Video
> > switcher, and mucho MIDI. I was using a quadralink card, but now need to
> > switch to PPC/PCI.
> >
> > Alex
>
>
> Alex,
>
> This web site has a list of PCI cards for Macintosh computers.
> There are four or five manufacturers who make multi serial port
> cards listed. I do not have experience using them.

Hi all Maxers,

it seems that one of the best PCI card for this is "Smart serial 6" from
Keyspan (http://www.keyspan.com).  Problem is that this card supports many
devices ( up to 6) but it communicates directly with "apple communication
toolbox". I don't know if it's possible to use it with the "serial" object
in MAX. I don't have it and it cost 4000 francs (800$) in France.

Question is: Serial object recognizes more new ports on this card?
Maybe we must to ask to the author of this serial object?
Maybe David Z. knows something more about it?

 And now I have some special question. Do you know somebody if it's
possible to communicate MIDI from one Mac to second Mac without MIDI
interface ( only with serial cable)? I know that with 2 interfaces it's
possible, but it's obligatory?
1st Mac send MIDI out by serial port to the MIDI interface, from this MIDI
OUT it's going by the MIDI cable to MIDI IN in second interface and from
this to the serial port in 2nd Mac. It's possible to make it in different
way?

Pavel

-------------------------------------------------------------------
PAVEL SMETANA              smetana@calva.net
 _________________________________________________________________
10, rue Hechner                         tel. +33 3 88 31 87 89
67 000 Strasbourg (France)              fax. +33 3 88 31 87 90
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"THE ROOM OF DESIRES"  is on this address :
http://www.savba.sk/logos/mca/cecm/bee96cam/bfback_e/Welcomen.html

Council of Europe  -  "New Space for Art and Science" :
http://pconf.terminal.cz

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:16:08 +0100
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: 68K vs. PPC

>I would be extremely happy witha Max/DSP
>implementation that was not fully "real-time" on some
>processors... I have faith there will be faster
> processors in the future.

Hmm: faulty reasoning (IMHO). If a system isn't realtime and properly
prioritised as such in the kernel, then "non realtime but really fast"
isn't going to cut it. The faster the processor, the more bloated the
software that comes with it, or the more you'll try and do on it at once.

         Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL        contemporary dance projects
         http://www.cassiel.com        music synthesis and control

             years, passing by, VCO, VCF, and again, and again

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:43:41 -0700
From:    Steve Anderson 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997

        Reply to:   RE>MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997

> Many people on the list do not live in the U.S. and cannot access 1-800
>numbers there.  Of course, where they exist, e-mail addresses are >cheaper!

Dear David,

OK, didn't know that. I recently got a pc parallel port card for Mac and
think
their products a good value and have friendly service.
http://www.scsn.net/csi/index.html
Creative Solutions
7509 Connelley Drive Suite D
Hanover, MD 21076, USA
Voice: (410) 766-4080
Fax: (410) 766-4087
1-800-367-8465
 Hours of Operation: 8:30:am - 5:30 pm EST

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:52:32 +0200
From:    Bertram Dunskus 
Subject: Connecting two max sessions

Hello fellow Max users,

after a half year of studies, I'm starting my first major application and I
ran into some snags...

Several questions for now:

1.) Connecting computers

I would like to connect two Mac's running Max. I need to exchange lots of
realtime data, so I would prefer to use the fastest connection available. I
have the option of using

a) Midi (37 kbit/sec)
b) Serial Connection (115kbit or 230 kbit/sec)
c) Ethernet (10 Mbit/sec)

Unfortunately none of the solutions seemed to be very well supported:

I could only find support in Max for the Midi connection (e.g. rsend,
rceceive objects), but that's slow.

The serial object only seems to support 57kbit speed.

Also there is the wc chat client, but I don't have any server software for
that.

Somebody mentioned the "telnet" object, that could be useful, but I was
unable to find it.

2.) Controlling the Digidesign ProTools DAE

I heard that someone had developed a max object to control the digital
audio hardware in the ProTools III system. Can anybody point me to a source?

3.) Creating a graphic window:

I haven't been able to find a method of changing the size of the graphics
window based on external values. Is this impossible? I want to calculate
the values, based on some configuration and then open the window in the
right size at the correct position.

Can anybody help me out?

Thank you in advance,

Bert :)

PS: I would gladly make my software available. Part of it involves a
network based (TCP/IP) based midi interconnection over OMS.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:19:09 -0700
From:    Steve Ellison 
Subject: Re: 68K vs. PPC

Richard Zvonar and I performed some extensive tests with Max 3.0 on
PowerMac and 68040 computers and came to the following conclusions:

1) If you're using Max 3.0 and a PowerPC, DEFINITELY use OMS 1.2.x, NOT OMS
2.x  The continual context switches that happen when you're running OMS 2.x
with non-native Max 3.0 really bog down the computer.

2) Max performance on PowerPC is really sensitive to which extensions are
on.

3) An 8500/180 running emulated 68K instructions is faster than a Q650.
The "break-even" point seems to be around 132 mhz 604

4) If you're running Max 3.0 on a PowerMac, make sure you have Level II
cache.  For instance, performance REALLY improved on my 7500 with the
addition of Level II cache (which originally was not included by Apple).
Improved even more when I added a 99$ 120 mhz 604 card, available from
www.macworks.com

FWIW...

_____________________________________________________
Steve Ellison                ellison@LCSaudio.com
Level Control Systems        http://www.LCSaudio.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:04:26 -0400
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Videodisc mastering

Apologies for those who see this twice...

I need to have a video laserdisc "check disk" made ASAP, in the next
couple of weeks for a video installation I've just been invited to do.
This is *different* from the "alpha disc" option which costs ~$700; the
check disc is a non-archival, single-copy, reference laserdisc and is
supposed to be much cheaper.

Who can recommend a good place, preferably in the mid-Atlantic region (I'm
in Baltimore) that can do this quickly and as cheaply as possible?

Thanx in advance,
David Crandall
dcrand1@umbc.edu
University of Maryland, Baltimore County

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:28:10 PDT
From:    "Patrick T. Rost" 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 16 Apr 1997 to 17 Apr 1997

Let's assume that Patrick purchased Max 3.5 and he just wants to use
the externals that come with it in conjunction with an older version.
That's fine, but if we assume that new externals are a major part of
the value in an upgrade, someone who acquires the externals and
uses them with a previous version without buying the upgrade would
be getting something for free that others, such as Patrick, paid
money for. I could easily take my Powerbook 100 off the bookshelf
it's on and try to fix the detonate object to work with a 68000
machine, but I have a hard time motivating myself to do so. I hope
that doesn't come off as greedy or insensitive.

David Z.

Well, as an owner of Max since 3.0 came out in the summer of 94, I've had to
jump through many hoops to get it to work on a variety of machines:
Performa 600 (which I had to call and get a copy of 2.5.2 sent out because I
had
been counting on Max for a TV theme I was doing)
PowerMac 7200/75 which doesn't like 2.5.2, killed my 3.0 installs, and runs
3.5
intermittently at best,
which led me to my Plus/SE/PowerBook100 style of doing things.  Yep, things
are
fairly stable under system 6.0.8 (no MultiFinder) and Max 2.5.2, but I would
appreciate Standard MIDI FIles of type 1.  I'd use the explode object that
came
with 2.5.2 if I just needed graphic editing, but the point of detonate is
that
it does read both type 0 and 1.  I don't think that the concern of copy
protection is valid, as the person who could in theory "steal" detonate
without
paying must own a copy of Max (with all of its copy-protection woes) and had
to
have paid for it.  If one is programming, one should make an attempt to be
as compatible as possible, and I can't imagine that the computation in
explode
or detonate would be such that you can't run it on a 68000.  Some of us just
prefer to simplify our lives, and there are times that we must go back to go
forward.  I choose to run on a 68000, some people go back to nature.  No one
should be penalized by capitalism for those things...
I wonder what Miller would say?  Maybe I'll ask him later today what his
intentions were when he made Max?  Were they to make a usable tool for
 (computer)
music? Or to make a quick buck?

Patrick T. Rost
Studio and Facilities Technology Assistant
UCSan Diego

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 23:22:01 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: 800 numbers (Was: Product advice)

David Rodger wrote:
>If anyone is going to post contact details like this, would you please put
>a regular phone number as well. Many people on the list do not live in the
>U.S. and cannot access 1-800 numbers there.  Of course, where they exist,
>e-mail addresses are cheaper!

There are two paths to accessing American 1-800 numbers from overseas. One
is a calling card from any of the major American carriers (MCI, AT&T,
Sprint), the second is via callback services. The second option may be
cheaper, though I haven't heard a lot about callback lately. I think the
big carriers will also let you use a credit card (Visa, MC, AmEx).

*Nevertheless*, a `real' telephone number would be appreciated, since the
telephone companies earn double on intercontinental calls to a 1-800 number
(caller pays overseas rates one way or t'other, the 1-800 pays charges from
the American nub on top of that). And for a few folks, neither of the above
may be an option.

And, of course e-mail is better still.

Cheers,

Peter

---------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/Music --------------
Dr. Peter Castine           | ``You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de   | anymore.''
                            |
                            | 2nd Prize Question: Who said it?
                            | 1st Prize Question: When?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:51:29 -0700
From:    Issac Roth 
Subject: Re: timeline bugs

> this is from my experience with max 3.5/3.5.1. I use it for control of
> different devices. an ideal feature for this is the timeline. but i
> tried & tried & it just bugged back at me...
>
> first thing i experienced: if you save the efunc table (your drawn data)
> for a track, you will not be able to load this file again & zhe original
> data will be lost upon re-opening of the timeline file.

My experience with the timeline (which I love and rely upon heavily) is that
it works beautifully as long as you don't use any graphical timeline
objects.
So I whipped up a bunch of non-graphical equivalents to things like efunc,
and
while it's a pain to change the numbers, it doesn't crash anymore.

Good luck,

Issac

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:58:06 -0700
From:    Issac Roth 
Subject: Academic Max

For quite some time there has been an academic version of Max available for
a
discount to people working in education. I just found out that it is now
very
easy to get it (used to have to make our campus bookstore order it, which
took
forever). Last time I tried, you couldn't get it directly from Opcode.

Apparently MacWarehouse sells the Max academic version for $195. Look at
http://www.warehouse.com/education/ for more info. Professors, students,
etc,
are eligible. I think they also can arrange 10-paks and related kinds of
things.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with MacWarehouse, don't get kickbacks from
their sales, etc, although I've always had good experiences with them. I
don't
know if an academic sale cuts into how much money David Z. gets, but I hope
he
is compensated for sales regardless of the sale price. I think the more
people
that use Max, the better.

Issac

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 22 Apr 1997 to 23 Apr 1997
**********************************************