1/30/97 12:00 AM
Subject: MAX Digest - 28 Jan 1997 to 29 Jan
1997To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 6 messages totalling 205 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. quite upset indeed... (2)
  2. Synthesis
  3. quite upset indeed... / native coding / RTC-lib
  4. chord stuff: Pehlke, Elsea
  5. Robert Rowe & Cypher


Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:11:35 +0100
From:    Tom Mays 
Subject: Re: quite upset indeed...

>>Distributing them for free means we can change them at any time. If we
want to
change the name, messages, file format etc we can and anyone who is using
has no redress because they are getting something for nothing. With
objects he is obliged to keep compatibliity, fix bugs etc as we will have
for them. This is the fundemental difference and why they are worth $50 and

I don't see where Stephen is "obliged" to do anything simply by demanding
payment. One would have to take him to small claims court and most likely
be faced with the "let the buyer beware" clause.

Neither do I see why NOT asking for payment devoids one of ANY sense of
obligation or responsibility to one's community.

If you mean that he is *morally* obliged because he was paid, does that mean
that moral obligation is expressed exclusively in terms of money?

If somebody asks for money for their services we either pay and have or
don't pay and don't have. Let us not confuse this with obligation, moral
or otherwise.

I have nothing against Stephen asking for money for his new work, but I
with Richard that to roll the old objects in with them is disrespectful to
otherwise faithful and interested community.

Tom Mays


Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:46:16 GMT
From:    Jem Finer 
Subject: Synthesis

While reading about software synthesis I am wondering if it's possible to
write such things in Max. The maths I'm sure is no problem but what would
one direct it at to make a sound ?

Look forward to hearing from you,

Jem Finer

Jem Finer

Kentish Town
London NW5


Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 14:02:16 +0100
From:    "Dr. Karlheinz Essl" 
Subject: Re: quite upset indeed... / native coding / RTC-lib

Richard Dudas wrote:

> and there are the gary lee nelson objects, too
> gary, since you provided the source on the ftp servers, may i go ahead and
> port these to codewarrior and recompile for max three point five (aaargh

Splendid idea - Gary Nelson's "unique" object (I guess he is the author of
it) is one of the last objects in my RTC-lib which are not native! I would
appreciate if Richard could do it.

BTW, since I did not received my MAX 3.5 package yet (obviously it's a long
way to Austria) I could not test the new FAT version of my lib thoroughly -
only with the one of the alpha-versions of MAXplay3.5. That's the reason
why you will only find a beta-version of it on the MAX3.5 CD-ROM. However,
some people have been reporting troubles with several patches which were
stored in the old format which the new PPC-MAX does not recognize, like:


In the meantime this problem could be remedied just be loading these
patches into the 68k-version and store them under "new format". Then they
could be used in PPC-MAX. I will post an updated version of RTC-lib 3.0 as
soon as I could test it carefully.


                        Dr. Karlheinz Essl
         SAMT - Studio for Advanced Music & Media Technology
                Bruckner-Konservatorium Linz / Austria


Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 17:29:21 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay <70714.1356@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: quite upset indeed...

Tom Mays:
>I have nothing against Stephen asking for money for his new work, but I
>with Richard that to roll the old objects in with them is disrespectful to
>otherwise faithful and interested community.

No disrespect was intended.  Once again, I ask:
Would it have been better for me to just skip the port of my objects
completely (like many other former MAX developers who are on to bigger and
better things did), so that there was no chance of them being available in
FAT versions; or to make them available as part of a comprehensive,
low-priced collection of objects?

The 68k versions are still available via ftp for free as always.

Thanks to all who have e-mailed me their support privately or publicly.

BTW, Eric, if you're listening, please let me know when you plan to finish
porting your highly useful objects to the PPC, and how much you will charge
for the package. I'll send you the first check.  I could greatly use a PPC
SeqPlayer, and would be happy to pay for it.

Stephen Kay

The MegaMAX Collection - Full color 3D UI Objects,
Macintosh Interface objects, and other Max helpers.
------check out the demo on the MAX 3.5 CD-------


Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:06:49 +0100
From:    dudas 
Subject: chord stuff: Pehlke, Elsea

Amanda Pehlke writes:
>Now, what do I say on my patcher when I want to give it proudly to someone
>else, and although it will look the same to them, it works better and it
>really you gentlemen that saved my butt in making it?  What is the
>in acknowleging the use of copyrighted objects?

Dunno.  I suppose a little note saying thanks to x, y and z for their
external objects/patches/whatever.  To be honest, I sometimes forget,
especially when I'm just giving stuff out to friends.  It may be the
thought that counts, but a little "read-me" file alongside a patch, or
something like that, is always appreciated if you upload things to an FTP

Peter Elsea writes:
>In fact, I like his idea so much, I'm going to steal it.

tsk tsk tsk -- a veritable thief indeed!!!!! (he chuckles)

Peter Elsea reports:
> ...compact this information into easily searchable single numbers. I make
>them a little differently:
>[Lmult 1 16 256 4096 ]

I suppose If you're doing a Lmult, you could try to squeeze the maximum
number of notes possible into a single 32-bit integer by using:
[Lmult 1 12 144 1728 ] (assuming 12-note scales)
My version, using the bit-shift (<<) mostly for speed purposes, limits the
number of notes in a chord to 8. (Multiples of 12 should probably push this
limit up to 9 notes  (???)  so maybe it's not really worth it, after all. )

It would be interesting to compare the relationship between two series of
enormous numbers generated by playing the same chord progression in two
different keys... I haven't had the time to fiddle with this idea... but IF
the difference between the numbers generated by playing a progression such
as I IV I V7 I  were the same regardless of key...  you could then discern
harmonic function by using just a "Bucket" and "-" object (and maybe a "%",
a quarter teaspoon of baking soda and a dash of nutmeg thrown in for good
Just an idea.  If one of you guys figures it out let me know.



Date:    Wed, 29 Jan 1997 22:26:19 -0500
From:    Tommy DOG 
Subject: Robert Rowe & Cypher

Dearest Uncle Max,
Has anyone used Cypher by Robert Rowe? I know it is included in a book
of his on MIT Press. I can't locate a copy of the book, at the moment I
can't get on to NYU at all, so E'ing Mr. Rowe seems hopeless. If anyone
can help, please E.....
Well, while I'm here... I was at a site where they had some info about
using Max for Neural Nets.... It's probably on Sausage, but I don't have
the slightest idea what the site was called. So if you are either the
folks who are doing this, I can't imagine there are too many people
doing this, or if you know who the people are, please E.
As if I don't have enough E-mail as it is.
Tommy DOG
home of stuff like; Sausage and the grossly unpopular random music


End of MAX Digest - 28 Jan 1997 to 29 Jan 1997