From:
                                                            1/26/97 12:00 AM
Subject: MAX Digest - 24 Jan 1997 to 25 Jan
1997To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 9 messages totalling 479 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. DMX-512 (2)
  2. DMX 512
  3. quite upset indeed... (4)
  4. Super Armatron & Max
  5. MAX patch info here in the mailing list?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:21:03 -0500
From:    David Bianciardi 
Subject: DMX-512

>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:15:14 -0500
>From:    "Joseph W. Rovan" <105561.3371@COMPUSERVE.COM>
>Subject: DMX-512
>
>A quick question: I've seen this come up a few times recently--what is a
>"LanBox-LC II" MIDI to DMX-512 convertor? (Specifically, what kind of
>hardware does DMX-512 speak to?)
>
DMX-512 is a lighting control protocol, used by most pro lighting boards to
talk to dimmers, moving lights, etc.  I don't  (am eager to) know much
about the LanBox, although i've been researching PCI, Nubus and PICMG DMX
cards for PCs.

Hope that answers some of your question.

regards,

Gian David Bianciardi
tech@idrc.com
gdb@interport.net
____________________________________________________________________________
Project Manager || IDRC || 467 Greenwich St || NYC, NY 10013 || 800.767.8414

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:52:51 +0100
From:    Jeffrey Burns 
Subject: DMX 512

>A quick question: I've seen this come up a few times recently--what is a
>"LanBox-LC II" MIDI to DMX-512 convertor? (Specifically, what kind of
>hardware does DMX-512 speak to?)
>
>Thanks--
>Butch Rovan
>
Dear Butch,
This hardware is supposed to convert MIDI (or possibly a normal serial
signal) to DMX 512, which is a standardized format for comunication between
lighting consoles in theaters and the dimmerpacks which control the lights.
Useful for interactive music and light projects. (Theaters which don't have
modern digital dimmerpacks usually have a sometimes self-constructed
demultiplexer, which converts the DMX 512 to the particular analogue format
used by their equipment. Before DMX 512, there were various 10 volt signals
in use.) DMX 512 is defined to have a baud rate of 250,000 and an RS 485
power configuration and therefore requires some hardware not normally in a
Mac. I have a printed protocol of the signal, if this interests you.
Many greetings
Jeff

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:51:07 EST
From:    Roland Hemming <100414.2220@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: DMX-512

>A quick question: I've seen this come up a few times recently--what is a
>"LanBox-LC II" MIDI to DMX-512 convertor? (Specifically, what kind of
>hardware does DMX-512 speak to?)

DMX512 is a RS422 type prototcol for talking to lighting dimmers. You have
512
channels each with an 8 bit value. So theoretically you can control upto 512
different lights. It is very much the standard way of controlling lights.

With the advent of moving lights it does more than just control the
brightness.
You assign several channels of DMX to each light:eq 1 for dimmer, 1 for Pan,
1
for tilt, 1 for colour etc.

Is this enough info?

Roland

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:41:01 +0100
From:    dudas 
Subject: quite upset indeed...

I've finally got Max3.5 PPC up and running chez moi, thanks to a friend's
install, since the key disk Opcode sent me was completely erased by the
time it reached Paris. (My computer either spits it out or asks me if I
want to reformat it...)

But that's not why I'm writing.

I noticed immediately that Stephen Kay is now trying to sell his external
objects, even those that have previously been in the public domain!!  (Who
could miss noticing the tacky, brightly-coloured and oddly-sized folder
labelled "Mega-Max" in the Unsupported objects folder on the 3.5 CD-ROM???)

Whereas I have nothing against his selling max externals which he may have
put a lot of time and energy into creating, it is, in my opinion, certainly
extremely obnoxious, not to mention downright disgusting and sadly showing
a lack of character on his part, to try to sell something which has
previously been free.

The object in particular whose sale enraged me to the point of having a
coronary "type", the only one of Kay's objects which I've ever had the
misfortune to use in any of my patches. The 68k version has been, and is
still available on FTP servers everywhere -- but the new FAT version is
only available as a demo, and does not get saved with the patch.  I'm
morally against this kind of thing.

My solution (and I hope others will follow):  not to use any of these
objects, and to rewrite my old patches so they do not depend on them.  I
went ahead and made an abstraction which is compatible with "type" and
which I can use to replace this Kay object -- I call it "tipe".  Here it is
with a help file:

Paste the following into a text file and name the file "tipe":
----------------------------------------------------------
max v2;
#N vpatcher 21 43 385 456;
#P newex 101 53 61 196617 prepend list;
#P newex 185 174 50 196617 route list;
#P newex 185 283 71 196617 route int float;
#P newex 185 151 40 196617 listiter;
#P newex 202 225 60 196617 prepend set;
#P newex 185 201 27 196617 t b l;
#P message 185 259 137 196617;
#P outlet 104 429 15 0;
#P outlet 74 429 15 0;
#P outlet 44 429 15 0;
#P newex 29 231 20 196617 t b;
#P message 131 284 22 196617 set;
#P message 104 393 136 196617;
#P message 74 377 136 196617;
#P message 44 361 136 196617;
#P newex 29 130 40 196617 t b l b;
#P newex 29 22 45 196617 loadbang;
#P message 44 77 14 196617 2;
#P message 29 77 14 196617 1;
#P newex 29 100 82 196617 gate 2;
#P message 29 41 21 196617 $1;
#P newex 29 58 40 196617 sel 0 i;
#P inlet 101 27 15 0;
#P message 44 259 137 196617;
#P newex 44 201 27 196617 t b l;
#P newex 61 225 60 196617 prepend set;
#P newex 104 342 75 196617 prepend append;
#P newex 44 151 40 196617 listiter;
#P newex 74 324 75 196617 prepend append;
#P newex 44 306 75 196617 prepend append;
#P newex 44 283 71 196617 route int float;
#P newex 44 174 50 196617 route list;
#P connect 31 0 12 1;
#P connect 30 0 26 0;
#P connect 25 0 29 0;
#P connect 30 1 29 0;
#P connect 29 0 22 0;
#P connect 29 1 23 0;
#P connect 29 2 24 0;
#P connect 20 0 18 0;
#P connect 20 0 19 0;
#P connect 19 0 24 0;
#P connect 20 0 17 0;
#P connect 18 0 23 0;
#P connect 14 0 12 0;
#P connect 17 0 22 0;
#P connect 28 0 30 0;
#P connect 27 0 25 0;
#P connect 13 0 12 0;
#P connect 11 0 10 0;
#P connect 26 0 25 0;
#P connect 21 0 17 0;
#P connect 26 1 27 0;
#P connect 21 0 18 0;
#P connect 16 0 21 0;
#P connect 21 0 19 0;
#P connect 16 1 4 0;
#P connect 15 0 11 0;
#P connect 12 0 16 0;
#P connect 16 2 20 0;
#P connect 12 1 28 0;
#P connect 10 1 14 0;
#P connect 10 0 13 0;
#P connect 7 0 8 0;
#P connect 7 1 6 0;
#P connect 8 0 1 0;
#P connect 5 0 19 0;
#P connect 4 0 0 0;
#P connect 3 0 18 0;
#P connect 2 0 17 0;
#P connect 1 0 2 0;
#P connect 6 0 8 0;
#P connect 1 1 3 0;
#P connect 1 2 5 0;
#P connect 0 0 7 0;
#P connect 0 1 1 0;
#P connect 9 0 31 0;
#P pop;
-------------------------------------------------

This is the help file.  Paste it into a text file and name it "type.help":

-------------------------------------------------
max v2;
#N vpatcher 291 80 704 421;
#P message 30 237 191 196617 99 hildegard 1.21 32767 0.0001 ethel 7;
#P newex 142 283 65 196617 print symbol;
#P newex 86 283 54 196617 print float;
#P newex 30 283 45 196617 print int;
#P message 25 82 192 196617 ophelia 67 3.14159 gertrude 42 88 1.21;
#P message 183 133 34 196617 clams;
#P message 163 99 54 196617 grapefruit;
#P message 168 116 49 196617 pumpkins;
#P flonum 126 99 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P number 89 99 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P message 247 210 79 196617;
#P newex 247 185 60 196617 prepend set;
#P newex 168 185 60 196617 prepend set;
#P message 168 210 78 196617;
#P message 89 210 78 196617;
#P newex 89 185 60 196617 prepend set;
#P newex 30 258 122 196617 tipe i;
#P newex 89 158 169 196617 tipe;
#P comment 7 21 46 196622 tipe;
#P comment 53 21 304 196617 a handy-dandy little abstraction to replace
Stephen Kay's 'type' - which is no longer in the public domain for PPC
versions of Max;
#P comment 226 239 113 196617 as with 'type' \, the argument "i" may be
used to iterate the output in the order in which it is received;
#P comment 53 47 285 196617 this abstraction relies on James McCartney's
'listiter' object;
#P comment 221 93 168 196617 an incoming list is divided into sub-lists
based on the elements' data-types: int \, float and symbol;
#P connect 14 0 5 0;
#P connect 13 0 5 0;
#P connect 22 0 6 0;
#P connect 18 0 5 0;
#P connect 17 0 5 0;
#P connect 16 0 5 0;
#P connect 15 0 5 0;
#P connect 11 0 12 0;
#P connect 10 0 9 0;
#P connect 7 0 8 0;
#P connect 6 0 19 0;
#P connect 6 1 20 0;
#P connect 6 2 21 0;
#P connect 5 0 7 0;
#P connect 5 1 10 0;
#P connect 5 2 11 0;
#P pop;
--------------------------------------------------------------

So, for all of us unfortunate enough to have made use of this external
object, voila` - the instant replacement.  Pass it around. Feed it to your
goldfish.  Whatever you want.

This just shows that with a little lateral thinking, many supposedly
"fancy" 3rd party objects can be replaced using a combination of standard,
boring Max objects.   The only quasi-non-standard max object I used here
was James McCartney's "listiter" -- an object which has been in the public
domain since the very beginning... even the source code is and has been
available, a very nice gesture on James' part -- I learned a lot about
programming by studying the C code for his max objects.

Yes, you say, but this "tipe" thing is a bit slower than "type"... Yeah,
sure, quite a few amongst us could have hacked together their own identical
max external in C to serve as a replacement in a flash.  But oh, so boring
that would be!!! (I must admit I had a lot of fun making the above
patches!) Besides, Stephen Kay's object is copyrighted!!  Horrors! So it
seems the above abstraction will have to suffice for the moment!!!!

If anyone else has made use of any of the other 68k Kay objects, it would
be nice if you could also post _your_ practical solutions for PPC
replacements for the rest of us to use and enjoy.  If anyone is having
trouble finding replacements, please write to the list and I'm sure most of
us who follow the Max-McGill soap opera would be more than happy to provide
you with an elegant solution.

Happy Max-ing!

-Richard

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:37:26 +0000
From:    Tod Fiste 
Subject: Re: quite upset indeed...

Hey, Richard, speaking of quite upset indeed...

I'm a new Max user who is drooling at the idea of lots of good Max stuff
on the IRCAM server, but the server rejects my advances due to "abuses
by my site".  (And what the heck does that mean, anyway?)  I assume from
your e-mail address that you have a connection to IRCAM - can you tell
me (or ask someone for me) what gives?  Other mail on this list makes me
believe I'm not the only one having this problem...

Tod

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:43:00 MST
From:    Adam Schabtach 
Subject: Re: quite upset indeed...

>Whereas I have nothing against his selling max externals which he may have
>put a lot of time and energy into creating, it is, in my opinion, certainly
>extremely obnoxious, not to mention downright disgusting and sadly showing
>a lack of character on his part, to try to sell something which has
>previously been free.

Uh... I don't see why this is either obnoxious, disgusting, or indicative
of his character. Now, I'll admit that I haven't really examined Mr. Kay's
work as present in FTP sites and on the 3.5 CD-ROM, but, from my cursory
inspection, I got the impression that he's selling the new, fat objects,
and still giving away the earlier versions. If he wasn't giving those away,
I would assume that he'd ask the archivists of the various FTP sites to
remove his objects from those sites. (I hope he doesn't do so, but it's his
choice.) In other words, he's asking that you pay for the work he's added
to the objects to make them PPC-compatible. So is Opcode--you didn't get
3.5 for free, did you?

So I take it that anyone who initially provides free versions of their
software, and then asks money for enhanced versions, is also obnoxious and
disgusting? I guess this means that every software company that provides
public beta versions of their products is also obnoxious and disgusting.

>The object in particular whose sale enraged me to the point of having a
>coronary "type", the only one of Kay's objects which I've ever had the
>misfortune to use in any of my patches.

Gee, such misfortune. He made something freely available, which you found
useful, so you used it. That was your choice, no?

>The 68k version has been, and is
>still available on FTP servers everywhere -- but the new FAT version is
>only available as a demo, and does not get saved with the patch.  I'm
>morally against this kind of thing.

I don't see where morals come into this. You don't have to use his
software. You don't have to pay for the new version. You can keep running
68K MAX, and use the old, free version of "type". If you want to use the
fat version, you have to buy it. Is that such a big deal?

Yes, it is very nice that lots and lots of people have made their
MAX-related work freely available. I thank Mr. Kay et al for doing so. At
the same time, I won't condemn someone who's trying to make a few bucks
from their efforts. In some sort of utopian world, every piece of software
on my hard drive would be free. We're not there yet, I'm afraid.

--Adam

Adam Schabtach  +  nebulous@rmii.com  +  http://rainbow.rmi.net/~nebulous
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  "Avoid trying to make songs: create them when you're not looking.
   In fact, avoid trying to make music."     --Brian Eno

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:14:28 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay <70714.1356@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: quite upset indeed...

Sorry to make you so mad Richard...

>Whereas I have nothing against his selling max externals which he may have
>put a lot of time and energy into creating, it is, in my opinion,
certainly
>extremely obnoxious, not to mention downright disgusting and sadly showing
>a lack of character on his part, to try to sell something which has
>previously been free.

Many free programs often later become shareware, and then get picked up by
commercial enterprises and sold, when they were previously in the public
domain.  Writing MAX objects takes time, porting them to PPC takes time...
I found it time consuming enough trying to develop a complete "package" of
objects, and spending all the time/money buying/learning CodeWarrior
instead of THINK C made me just feel I should roll all the old objects up
with the highly useful new ones, and maintain them as a collection. (I did
debate with myself quite a bit about that...)

Of course, you didn't mention the new folder of other _free_ objects I have
on the CD, entitled "optimized gates" (written with David Z, and highly
useful to those of you with large patches that want some speed
optimization), or the free port I did of David Roach's andGate and orGate,
also in the same folder and available _free_.

Furthermore, I'm about to port several of Steve Ellison's objects _for
free_ and post them to the MAX community _for free_.

If the idea of paying for objects disgusts you, think of them as "plug-ins"
- no one seems to mind shelling out money for things that improve the
performance or add new features to their previously purchased programs.
And I happen to know that other people are contemplating doing the same
thing, with previously released "public domain" objects - didn't you find
the absence of Eric Singer's highly useful objects suspicious?  I spoke to
him via e-mail, and he didn't have the time to do it, Opcode wouldn't make
it worth his while, and he mentioned he was thinking of putting a package
together for sale also.

I say "go right ahead, Eric", and I'll be the first to send him my check
for FAT versions of his highly useful objects.  Not all of us developers
have grants from universities, or nicely paying, secure jobs as tenured
college professors.  I've devoted much of my time to helping people on this
list, but I'm not out to make the world safe from free enterprise.

"type" is the most trivial object I ever wrote, and if you want to make
abstractions to duplicate the rest, feel free - I won't lose any sleep.
One thing you can't abstract is User Interface Objects, and that is the
main point of the MegaMAX Collection - all the full color, 3D objects for
constructing professional looking UIs, and the objects for putting up Modal
dialogs, About boxes, etc.  I rolled the rest of my stuff into it to make
it all easier to maintain.  Anyone who wants info on the collection that is
not upgrading to 3.5 can e-mail me privately.

Best regards,
Stephen Kay

check out on the 3.5 CD:
Optimized Gates (folder) FREE
Roach Gates (inside above) FREE
MegaMAX Collection DEMO

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:06:03 -0500
From:    Tommy DOG 
Subject: Super Armatron & Max

Uncle Max and Co.,
A couple of years ago I bought a beginners book on robotics. It was a
cool book, it talked about taking toys and raping them for parts and all
kinds of cool stuff. Anyway, I ended up buying a toy at Le Shack (Radio
Shack) called Super Armatron. The toy had been recommended (in the book)
as a good introduction to robotic arm mechanisms and I immediately loved
it and tried to convince people that I was gonna start a band with this
thing. Finally I cut to the chase, I'm wondering if anyone is working
with Max as a go between to MIDI and hardware stuff like our friend
Super Armatron. I'm always interested in checking out patches, in fact,
I welcome patches of any kind... send them all, unless they are huge.
As an important note, Super Armatron seems to only be on sale at
Hanukkah time (at least at my local Radio Shack) and please don't ask me
to locate the book.... If I have to dig through the mountains of books I
definitely need to get a bribe in the form of interesting patches.
as usual,
Tommy DOG
http://www.panix.com/~jjprinz/unidex.htm
PS This year I was tempted to buy another Super Armatron, because they
changed the color.

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:53:31 -0800
From:    Jon Froines 
Subject: MAX patch info here in the mailing list?

This may be a dumb question, but when I see people poasting stuff like:
-------------------------------------------------
max v2;
#N vpatcher 9 40 794 554;
#P newex 72 130 27 196617 sort;
#P newex 72 156 43 196617 t b l b;
#P newex 72 293 43 196617 accum;
etc etc...
I'm guessing that this is a text representation of a MAX patch.  At least,
that makes sense seeing some of the stuff in this text, like "accum" and "t
b l b".  However, what I don't know is how to translate this into a MAX
patch.  What do I paste all this text into inside MAX to make this become a
real patch?  I've messed with MAX a lot, but to this point I haven't ever
really collaborated with anyone, so I am clueless here.  Thanks for info...

- JonYo (jonyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu)

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 24 Jan 1997 to 25 Jan 1997
**********************************************